Season 4 This endless pit of confusion

V

verdantheart

Guest
[Sorry for the lateness of this column . . . It's been one of those weeks . . .]

I just want the ghosts to go away.
Tell me about it.
~ Sydney and Vaughn

Among echoes we hear in “Echoes” (4.08) are the reverberations of the names of Rambaldi, Irina, Anna Espinosa, the Covenant, Lauren, and Sark.

We begin as Sydney and Nadia discuss Weiss. Nadia mentions how sweet and funny he is, but Sydney worries that Nadia might break his heart. They’re interrupted by a call from the office. Meanwhile, at the office, Vaughn and Weiss are discussing Nadia. Vaughn advises Weiss to “take it slow” thinking that Weiss was “weird” when another relationship ended and Weiss worked it out by building ships in bottles for months.

Jack and Sloane have been in Sloane’s office all morning and emerge portentously. Sloane announces that his agreement precludes his working on cases that deal with certain agents; therefore, he must recuse himself from this case. Jack is taking over for the duration. Anna Espinosa, once assumed dead, is the agent in question. She is to appear for a dead drop in Brussels in 36 hours and the team is assigned to surveillance.

Nadia, however, upon the information that Anna is a Follower of Rambaldi, excuses herself and Sydney takes her out to lunch to discuss it. Nadia tells her about hallucinations induced by the GRE (green Rambaldi elixir)--one in particular. She and Sydney pointing guns at each other. Nadia shoots Sydney--and Sydney looks as though she expected it. Sydney starts to tell her about the prophecy, but is interrupted by a phone call. It’s Anna, who has called her away from the table long enough to abduct Nadia. She has friends in high places with laser-equipped weapons pointed at Sydney, too--plus an assignment for Sydney.

Sydney reports what’s happened to Jack. They scrap the mission and reframe it. Sydney will go in Anna’s place and pick up the package.

In Brussels, Sydney meets Anna’s contact. He wants the assassination of Wilhelm Karg in exchange for the package. In exchange for the usual proof (the index finger and a convincing picture), he’ll fork it over. But there is a 40-minute time limit.

Sydney quickly transforms herself into a call girl and presents herself as a present for Mr Karg, who eagerly falls into the trap and less eagerly gives up his index finger. Meanwhile, Anna brands Nadia with the <o> symbol of the Followers of Rambaldi.

Sydney delivers the index finger to Anna’s contact and receives the “last remaining sample” of--whatever it is--which turns out to be a phosphorus-based putty, according to Marshall. It’s harmless on its own, but when mixed with certain neurotoxins: “booyaka!” Marshall suggests that the Cadmus Revolutionary Front (CRF), an offshoot of the Covenant, might be interested in it for the creation of a chemical bomb. Their link . . . Sark.

Sydney discusses things with Jack. She wants to turn the sample over. Sloane enters and says that it’s an unnecessary risk because Anna won’t kill Nadia because that’s not Nadia’s destiny. Sydney isn’t buying, however, and talks Jack into doing things her way.

Sydney exchanges the sample for Nadia, but not without the usual pleasantries--that is, a knock-down-drag-out. She goes to the parking garage and frees Nadia from a car trunk.

Meanwhile, Vaughn visits Sark in Federal prison. They come to no agreement--other than sending Sark to a darker hole for solitary confinement. Vaughn emerges to report to Jack that the meeting went as expected. Jack says that they’ll send in the surgical team that night.

Nadia arrives back at APO to be greeted by Weiss and Sloane. As Dr Jain looks her over, Nadia tells Sydney that Anna told her that they’d be torn apart. Sydney tells Nadia that she had come across an audio tape of her mother reporting to a contact in Hamburg, explaining the symbolic meaning of the <o> symbol. The brackets represent her two daughters and the circle represents the object that they are to “do great battle over.” According to Rambaldi only one of the daughters will survive. Nadia asks Sydney if she believes the prophecy, and she responds that she doesn’t but that those who do are dangerous--and that many of Rambaldi’s prophecies have come true.

That night, Sark is gassed and injected with tracker. It is supposedly undetectable and is also equipped with an explosive. During the transfer, the van rolls and Sark is broken out.

Intelligence comes in regarding a meet that Anna has scheduled in Estonia. Sydney remarks that Anna never checked the sample, but Jack shrugs it off, saying that Marshall wouldn’t have been able to produce a good fake in time anyway.

Sloane warns Sydney against pursuing Anna together with Nadia, saying that if Anna has her way only one of the two sisters will return alive.

Vaughn and Dixon are dispatched to Johannesburg to crack down on CRF headquarters, while Sydney and Nadia head to Estonia to watch Anna’s meet. In Johannesburg, Vaughn and his team find Sark alone with a bottle of Champagne. He proposes a deal.

In Estonia, Sydney and Nadia watch as Anna’s contact appears. Anna pops up and strangles the man, but before they can intervene, Karg pulls a gun on them. As Nadia fights him, Sydney pursues Anna. Karg pulls a knife and slashes Nadia, but ends up impaled on his own weapon. Sydney catches up with Anna and they trade shots. Nadia asks why the CRF wants to make the bomb and Karg whispers something in her ear. She runs to help Sydney. Sydney sees a shadow; she and Nadia face each other, guns ready. As they relax a little, Anna shoots Nadia from behind and runs away. A shocked Sydney holds her sister, begging her to stay with her . . .


Analysis . . .

Sark is willing to make a deal, but he’d rather take Vaughn on a wild goose chase first. He asks Vaughn whether it was the “infidelity or the espionage that motivated you to kill the woman I loved,” but can we take him at his word? He goes on to say, “She once actually told me that she longed to love you, but the mundane existence you provided couldn’t hold a candle to my passion.” Vaughn belts Sark one after this, but claims, “That wasn’t for sleeping with the woman I was married to--I couldn’t care less about her.”

Well, well. Vaughn admitted to a complete stranger (and in front of a woman we know he loves), that he loved Lauren and he didn’t back down from that statement to Sydney, so, really, can we say that this is anything but a hollow attempt by Vaughn to prop up his bruised ego? Meanwhile, Sark, who is unable to strike Vaughn, is not weaponless. Even if Sark has doubts about Vaughn’s feelings for Lauren, he must know that establishing any doubt in Vaughn’s mind about Lauren’s preference for Sark over Vaughn has got to hurt. One has to wonder if Sark is simply playing with Vaughn’s mind by claiming to have been in love with Lauren, or if this is a truthful admission. If it is truthful, why confide in Vaughn, of all people? Why hand Vaughn a weapon to use against him at some future date? That alone sets my teeth on edge and gives it a loud clang of falsehood.

Further, was the runaround simply about “the bubbly,” as Sark would have Vaughn believe? Hardly. It was about showing up the CIA--and more specifically Vaughn. What could be more fun than showing that he was in control all along--that they need something from him, so they’d better come through? That he can control some things, even from behind bars--when given the opportunity? And he wants to show Vaughn that he can out-smart, out-fight, and just plain out-agent him any day, any time. Don’t think so? Well, let’s put it down to this: he wants a better bargaining position. This gives him one.

Anna brands Nadia with the symbol of the Followers of Rambaldi, telling her that, “One day, whether you want to or not, you will help me destroy [Sydney].” Anna and Sydney have long been rivals, but Anna’s eagerness to destroy Sydney is interesting. Why is it this personal? Of course, it seems pretty personal with Sydney as well, doesn’t it?

OK, on to Sloane. There are certain agents that are on his no-no list, and Anna Espinosa is one of them. Hm, why is that? Is it because she is a Follower of Rambaldi? She wasn’t in one of his organizations--as far as we know . . . (And who else, dead and alive, are on that short list?) OK, questions, but no good answers.

Now that we have Rambaldi in our sights, let’s get to Nadia’s vision . . . apparently while her hand was busy automatically writing--and she was somehow simultaneously decoding all of this writing in her head (!)--she was also having a series of hallucinations! Talk about multitasking! She doesn’t remember them well, except for one: “This one vision . . . it felt so real. . . . We were both together, scared and upset, holding guns, aimed at each other. And I remember my hands were shaking. And I pulled the trigger. Blood was pouring down your chest. I wanted to say I was sorry, but you just looked at me as if you’d been expecting it, as if you knew all along--knew I was going to kill you. I know I must wound insane.”

Sydney eventually gets the chance to give Nadia the information about Irina’s explanation of the <o> symbol, that it represents her two daughters doing “great battle” over some mysterious central “object” and that “according to Rambaldi only one of the daughters will survive.”

So it comes down to a question of belief. Nadia asks Sydney what she thinks, and Sydney claims that she doesn’t believe the prophecies of that “15th-century lunatic.” On her own part, Sydney confronts Sloane, “From where I’m standing, it was your madman obsession in Rambaldi that dragged me and Nadia into this endless pit of confusion. So, given that, let me ask you. What is it you believe?”

He replies, “I believe that if the two of you go out on this mission and Anna Espinosa has her way, only one of you will return alive.”

Why does Sloane believe this--or does he? Certainly this seems to be close to the way things are turning out. Is Anna right on top of this object that they’re supposed to be fighting over? Or is it that Anna got a mirror of the moment Nadia described . . . is that what Sloane was thinking of? An opportunity to “push fate”? (Now, that seems like a bit of a stretch . . .)

Jack is not asked this question, nor does he offer his opinion. However, he sends Sydney and Nadia to Estonia without hesitation. Is this his answer? And if so, what, exactly, is he saying?


Random thoughts . . .

Let’s see . . . Rambaldi . . . Irina . . . Covenant . . . Sark . . . Anna . . . Lauren . . . and (drumroll, please) a for-real cliffhanger! That sound you’re hearing is the cries of “All is forgiven, Mr Abrams!” rising up to the heavens . . .

On a related note . . . what did I say?

Sorry, season 3 writers, I still don’t buy the idea that Nadia was somehow able to auto-write all of this Rambaldi felgercarb while in pain and half-delirious, alter it, and decode it all at once. And now she’s hallucinating at the same time?! Sorry. Nope. Too much. I thought it was ridiculous then and it's even more ridiculous now. You can have the automatic writing, the pain, the alterations, the delirium, and the hallucinations, but I draw the line at the in-the-head decryption! If Marshall can’t do it in his head, she can’t do it in hers--and definitely not under those circumstances. Forget it!


Discuss . . .

Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?

Sark tells Vaughn that he loved Lauren. Is he telling the truth or playing with Vaughn’s head? If he’s telling the truth, why would he confide in Vaughn? If not, how would this lie help him manipulate Vaughn?

Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why?

Turning to Vaughn. He tells Sark that he “couldn’t care less about” Lauren, but that’s not what he said a few weeks ago--and he hasn’t amended that statement to Sydney as far as we know. He told Sark the punch wasn’t about Lauren, but didn’t say what it was for. Why did Vaughn hit Sark, and how does he feel about Lauren, anyway? Is their struggle about ego?

Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?

Nadia apparently receives info about the bomb that we don't. Want to speculate? Is this bomb more than just the usual McGuffin?

Think about Vaughn/Sark and Sydney/Anna. Any comparisons or contrasts that you’d like to make?

Why do you think that Anna Espinosa would be on Sloane's "don't touch" list? Is it just the FoR thing? Or is there more behind it?

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?

We know that Sloane’s a believer. Why do you think that he said he thought only one of the sisters would return from the mission--if Anna got her way? Was that what he thought, or some sort of message to Sydney? Surely you don’t think the prophecy is in play at this early stage, right? Do you think he knows more about what the CRF is after than he's sharing?

Do you think Jack’s a believer or not? In the past he has claimed not to believe, and he sent the sisters out with no problem, but I could see this signifying either way. What are your thoughts?

What about Nadia? She hasn't taken a position yet. Do you think she will be a believer or not?

Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean, now. ;)


Next:
Sloane calls for revenge . . . and . . . hm . . . that looked like the return of the dreaded GRE . . .
 
Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?

There probably is a chance Weiss could break Nadia's heart, but given his apparent history from the conversations had, that is more unlikely. It sounds like he gets super serious and scares the women away. Taking it slow with Nadia would be the smart plan...she is Sloane and Irina's daughter after all.... ;)

Sark tells Vaughn that he loved Lauren. Is he telling the truth or playing with Vaughn’s head? If he’s telling the truth, why would he confide in Vaughn? If not, how would this lie help him manipulate Vaughn?

I think it is a lie to mess with Vaughn. I don't know that Sark needs any help manipulating Vaughn...that seems to be a pretty easy task, given last episode. I think he just really enjoys playing with his head! Besides Vaughn is not as effective and much more rash when he is upset and Sark certainly knows how to push his buttons!

Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why?

Well, if Sark had dealt from within the prison, he would not have gotten out...Now he gets to do things on his terms. I think showing Vaughn up was the icing on the cake! :rolleyes:
 
Sorry I hit add reply before I answered everything! :blush:

Turning to Vaughn. He tells Sark that he “couldn’t care less about” Lauren, but that’s not what he said a few weeks ago--and he hasn’t amended that statement to Sydney as far as we know. He told Sark the punch wasn’t about Lauren, but didn’t say what it was for. Why did Vaughn hit Sark, and how does he feel about Lauren, anyway? Is their struggle about ego?

I think Lauren was rebound and he convinced himself of feelings for her at first...then when it all came out, I think mostly he was just made at himself, had major wounded ego/pride. Sark is like salt in all those wounds and he infuriates Vaughn.

Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?

On the surface it seems like just a fierce rivalry...but this episode did seem to make it more personal than just that...hmmm I wonder if more will be revealed Wed! I cannot wait by the way! :D

Nadia apparently receives info about the bomb that we don't. Want to speculate? Is this bomb more than just the usual McGuffin?

I think so...but why share it with Nadia...is it supposed to be information that they think will help turn her to the "dark side"? Obviously I have no answers to this, just more questions. :thinking:

Why do you think that Anna Espinosa would be on Sloane's "don't touch" list? Is it just the FoR thing? Or is there more behind it?

Where Sloane is involved there probably is more to it....however going off what has been seen, I would say it is a Rimbaldi thing...seriously the man is obsessed...it is like the importance of keeping an alcoholic away from alcohol. :rolleyes:

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?

I think that Sydney does not really believe them even in her heart of hearts, but that doubt creeps in and things like her sister getting shot opens the door for even more doubt. Plus there is the fact that her mom believed them and she has seen some of it come true...but all in all, I think Syd believes her and Nadia control their destinies not some prophecy.

I want to know does Jack believe them at all? :thinking:

Do you think Jack’s a believer or not? In the past he has claimed not to believe, and he sent the sisters out with no problem, but I could see this signifying either way. What are your thoughts

Okay, you touched on this question...I would be hesitant to say the he was a believer, because he would not have sent them out on this mission together...unless he knew details of the prophecy and knew that this wouldn't be the end all. I don't know, I just don't see Jack as buying into it all....he does not seem to be a man of any kind of faith.......unless it is in his daughter! :D

What about Nadia? She hasn't taken a position yet. Do you think she will be a believer or not?

Well, she did say when her and Syd were talking that she didn't really believe it , but given her history and her parents, I would say the odds are that she will become convinced, perhaps even a zealot like the others and that is why her and Syd will end up fighting??? I hope not.


Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean, now. goodwink.gif

Hmmm...I enjoy the story line, but the jury is still out. I would not say I am a believer, not at this point. Not enough compelling evidence!
 
maybe sark wanted to wind up vaughn by mentioning lauren.

also sark may have contacted someone in the 24 hours he was off on his own. you never no
 
AWESOME column, Verdy! :D As always. ^_^

Totally agree about Sark's "admission" of love for Lauren. Pssh. :P

Now that we have Rambaldi in our sights, let’s get to Nadia’s vision . . . apparently while her hand was busy automatically writing--and she was somehow simultaneously decoding all of this writing in her head (!)--she was also having a series of hallucinations! Talk about multitasking! She doesn’t remember them well, except for one: “This one vision . . . it felt so real. . . . We were both together, scared and upset, holding guns, aimed at each other. And I remember my hands were shaking. And I pulled the trigger. Blood was pouring down your chest. I wanted to say I was sorry, but you just looked at me as if you’d been expecting it, as if you knew all along--knew I was going to kill you. I know I must sound insane.”

So it comes down to a question of belief. Nadia asks Sydney what she thinks, and Sydney claims that she doesn’t believe the prophecies of that “15th-century lunatic.” On her own part, Sydney confronts Sloane, “From where I’m standing, it was your madman obsession in Rambaldi that dragged me and Nadia into this endless pit of confusion. So, given that, let me ask you. What is it you believe?”

He replies, “I believe that if the two of you go out on this mission and Anna Espinosa has her way, only one of you will return alive.”

The thing I love about this particular situation is that, even though it does bring back Rambaldi, we must come to terms with the question of the power of individuals to thwart predictions by a man whose others have, in the past, come true. Now that Nadia and Sydney (ok, and everybody :P) know that this particular scenario has been predicted to play out, can they avoid it? It's the old philosophical question of: if you know it's going to happen, can you change it? I LOVE this. :D It's really deep and I hope JJ does something good with it.

Sorry, season 3 writers, I still don’t buy the idea that Nadia was somehow able to auto-write all of this Rambaldi felgercarb while in pain and half-delirious, alter it, and decode it all at once. And now she’s hallucinating at the same time?! Sorry. Nope. Too much. I thought it was ridiculous then and it's even more ridiculous now. You can have the automatic writing, the pain, the alterations, the delirium, and the hallucinations, but I draw the line at the in-the-head decryption! If Marshall can’t do it in his head, she can’t do it in hers--and definitely not under those circumstances. Forget it!
You're right. I have to watch the ep again... I didn't remember her saying that she had had this vision while Sloane was milking her for the Rambaldi felgercarb, like we saw last season. Could it be that she had it at another time? *goes back to watch again*

Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?
Well, to me this is all moot becaue I can't see them together. :rolleyes: Such a cliche. Does Nadia have to have a romantic interest just because she's a "hot single woman" on the show? *sigh* It reeks of formula.

Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why?
Not sure what you mean here. He couldn't have escaped had he not first complied. And obviously, he wouldn't lead them to the actual CRF HQ. So his only choice was to go about the plan he executed. :blink:

Why did Vaughn hit Sark, and how does he feel about Lauren, anyway? Is their struggle about ego?
I'd say yes. Also, Vaughn's just a messed up guy. :P But then again, I am biased. Although you must admit that his ruthlessness of late has been very un-"good guy" (for all those Vaughn apologists).

Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?
Yeah that was kinda out of the blue, coz yes they were rivals before, but why hold such a grudge just against Syd for this long? :blink: I'm sure Anna's had other nemeses. Maybe it's coz they both survived multiple deconstructions and rebuildings of their corresponding organizations (SD-6, CIA, APO, K-Dir, Covenant, CRF), and are thus the "ultimate nemeses." But that's a pretty weak reason. :P

Why do you think that Anna Espinosa would be on Sloane's "don't touch" list? Is it just the FoR thing? Or is there more behind it?
I'd say it is first and foremost an FoR thing. But Anna might also be in Sloane's pocket, which is my guess. Perhaps her shooting of Nadia was dictated by Sloane. He has been known to sacrifice Nadia for his own Rambaldi-related ends. And I don't think he means for her to die, per se. (I think we all know she won't). There's something up his sleeve, most definitely.

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?
She is refusing to believe. I think she wants to thwart this particular one. She believes in the others because she has seen them come true. But she abhors the obsession of the FoR, and instead of desiring Rambaldi's ultimate "plan" to come forth, she wants to subvert it, though she greatly respects Rambaldi's prophecies (don't you have to respect your enemy to really defeat him? ;)).
 
Leslie said:
though she greatly respects Rambaldi's prophecies (don't you have to respect your enemy to really defeat him? ;)).
[post="1235586"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​
If she's respecting Rambaldi to defeat him, perhaps stopping referring to him as "that 15th-century lunatic" might help . . . :lol: ;)
 
I have to say, that one point missed here is the prophecy that says...

The Passenger and The Chosen One shall battle. NEITHER will survive. Plus, so many of the lines and relationships seemed forced, that I felt like throwing up. This show should not seem forced, and it does.
 
Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?

Vaughn and Syd have a history which is why he is frustrated with her wanting to take it slow. I think it's wise for Weiss to take it slow with Nadia. I don't see him breaking her heart. I do worry about Nadia though, because honestly I'm not onboard with her yet, and still worry about her motives.


Sark tells Vaughn that he loved Lauren. Is he telling the truth or playing with Vaughn’s head? If he’s telling the truth, why would he confide in Vaughn? If not, how would this lie help him manipulate Vaughn?

A lot of people think that Sark was messing with Vaughn because he was incapable of love and how could he love someone like Lauren. I think he was telling the truth though. Lauren is a woman after his own heart...manipulative and rather cold. As for him 'confiding' in Vaughn...I tend to think it was more of a warning. Like "you killed the woman I loved, so watch your back" kind of thing.


Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why?

A combination of the three. I think it was fun for him, it did give him a better bargaining position and of course he wanted to show Vaughn...they two of them have some very tense moments.


Turning to Vaughn. He tells Sark that he “couldn’t care less about” Lauren, but that’s not what he said a few weeks ago--and he hasn’t amended that statement to Sydney as far as we know. He told Sark the punch wasn’t about Lauren, but didn’t say what it was for. Why did Vaughn hit Sark, and how does he feel about Lauren, anyway? Is their struggle about ego?

Of course he's going to have mixed feelings about Lauren. Deep down he's probably hurt about what happened, and more so upset with himself for falling for it. But he's not going to tell Sark that he loved Lauren and that her betrayl is still bothering him. And I think Vaughn hit Sark because he could, and it's easy for him to do. Simple as that.


Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?

Ana and Sydney have quite a history. Plus there's always the case that Ana knows more about the prophecy and Sydney than Sydney does.


Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?

I think she's refusing to believe them. In the back of her mind she really does believe that he could be right about her and Nadia. I don't think her shot will really have an effect. She seemed adament about not believing him.


Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean, now.

I'm honestly not sure. I want to believe it but then again I don't. We'll jst have to see how it plays out.



As always great column!! (y)
 
verdantheart said:
We know that Sloane’s a believer. Why do you think that he said he thought only one of the sisters would return from the mission--if Anna got her way? Was that what he thought, or some sort of message to Sydney? Surely you don’t think the prophecy is in play at this early stage, right? Do you think he knows more about what the CRF is after than he's sharing?

[post="1235272"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​


This made me wonder, too. Some thoughts that have been going through my head...

First Sloane tells Syd that Anna wouldn't kill Nadia because "it's not her destiny", then he tells Syd that if Anna has her way, only one of them would come back alive? Did something change his mind? Or was he implying he thought that Anna would kill Syd? Maybe Anna *was* trying to shoot Syd, and she mistook them in the dark? Or maybe Anna wasn't trying to kill Nadia, just trying to reinforce her point that Syd is a curse and everyone around her pays the price.

Or, maybe Anna is trying to thwart the prophecy. If she kills Nadia, then the prophecy about one of the sisters killing the other won't come true. While Sloane wants exactly the opposite, so he doesn't want to give Anna the opportunity to interfere with Nadia's "destiny" ...
 
Let’s see . . . Rambaldi . . . Irina . . . Covenant . . . Sark . . . Anna . . . Lauren . . . and (drumroll, please) a for-real cliffhanger! That sound you’re hearing is the cries of “All is forgiven, Mr Abrams!” rising up to the heavens . . .
yep yep!!!


Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?
ok ill be the first to say it - i'm bias when it comes to wadia. I'm soooooo bias - yep and thats an understatement because i :love: them
anyway i definitely dont think wiess would break nadia's heart - i mean look at him the boy is clearly smitten. He's just a loveable, hugable teddy bear. But i think Vaughn and Syd are just looking out for wiess because nadia could hurt him - they dont really know much about her yet so ... everyones being cautious
plus Syd and Vaughn are using their 'kid gloves' when dealing with any relationsihp -including their own- at this point

Sark tells Vaughn that he loved Lauren. Is he telling the truth or playing with Vaughn’s head? If he’s telling the truth, why would he confide in Vaughn? If not, how would this lie help him manipulate Vaughn?
sarks playing him SOOOO BAD
i dont think he loved lauren - does sark love anyone? or does he just lust for everyone? hmmm
and sark is playing to vaughns weakness aka lauren. He knows that anything he says about lauren will totally set Vaughn off and guess what? it worked.

Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why?
if they come out right away and ask sark to deal hes gonna say no - because it would hurt his pride/image to do so. but sark isnt stuipd "flexible loyalties" remember? so i think the run around was just to make him THINK he had the upper hand... maybe...

Turning to Vaughn. He tells Sark that he “couldn’t care less about” Lauren, but that’s not what he said a few weeks ago--and he hasn’t amended that statement to Sydney as far as we know. He told Sark the punch wasn’t about Lauren, but didn’t say what it was for. Why did Vaughn hit Sark, and how does he feel about Lauren, anyway? Is their struggle about ego?
first i think vaughn just takes any opportunity he has to make sark a little less pretty :lol:
and i think Vaughn will always have a weakness when it comes to lauren ... i mean- wouldnt you?

Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?
why was it so personal between them in season one? who knows... i guess it just is...

Think about Vaughn/Sark and Sydney/Anna. Any comparisons or contrasts that you’d like to make?
mortal enemies? nemises extreme? separated at birth twins? just kidding ;)
who knows....

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?
I don't think Sydney wants to belive in them. And when she first read about them she was probably like haha yeah right this is felgercarb. But the more they get shoved in her face and the more her life is forced to revolve around them she probably starts second guessing whether or not they actually could be true. So i think in her heart of hearts she doesnt want them to be true but shes really confused as hell. And as for Nadia being shot... i dont think that will effect her whole prophecy thing...


Do you think Jack’s a believer or not? In the past he has claimed not to believe, and he sent the sisters out with no problem, but I could see this signifying either way. What are your thoughts?
no i dont think hes a believer. I belive him when he says that he never got into the whole rambaldi thing. After all it woudl be nice to have ONE person whos not compltely wrapped up in it....

Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean, now.  ;)
noooooooo i'm so sick of rambaldi .... make it end please - or at least no more new divices please... i did enjoy that whole < this is one of my daughters > this is the other and this O is them fighting thing --- very interesting never woudl have guessed that one ;)
 
Hey V...great column...sorry about the tough week...but you did come up with a lot of ???
POV: During seasons 1 and 2 we heard that <o> was the signature of the Magnifique Order of Rambaldi. Sloane said it. I remember that sometime in Season 3 someone said that Bill Vaughn was a member of the Followers of Rambaldi and that was why he stole Nadia from the KGB and took her to Argentina....

Discuss . . .

Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?

I would think it would be the other way around...unless Weiss is *sob* (n) killed. The only thing I think that is JJ was getting a new show about bounty hunting for Greg.

Sark tells Vaughn that he loved Lauren. Is he telling the truth or playing with Vaughn’s head? If he’s telling the truth, why would he confide in Vaughn? If not, how would this lie help him manipulate Vaughn?

I love this guy. He is so, so bad, but with a delightful British accent (Yeah, I know he's from Oregon.) Sydney is not the only one who needs time...Vaughn does too! Sark is playing him. :angry:

Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why?

Cheeky little bastard isn't he? Well, he's out of Federal Prison and now IS in a better position, bubbly and all.


Turning to Vaughn. He tells Sark that he “couldn’t care less about” Lauren, but that’s not what he said a few weeks ago--and he hasn’t amended that statement to Sydney as far as we know. He told Sark the punch wasn’t about Lauren, but didn’t say what it was for. Why did Vaughn hit Sark, and how does he feel about Lauren, anyway? Is their struggle about ego?

He's a male, isn't he? Enough said. ^_^

Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?

Has been personal since season one. Anna and Sydney play off one another as ball off a tennis racket. The two actresses have great charisma together, I think. The doctor said he could take care of the brand..meaning it can be covered over and disappear.

Nadia apparently receives info about the bomb that we don't. Want to speculate? Is this bomb more than just the usual McGuffin?

I have no idea and if I did, it wouldn't come close to what the writers are going to do.

Think about Vaughn/Sark and Sydney/Anna. Any comparisons or contrasts that you’d like to make?

Between Vaughn and Sark, egos and hate. Between the Sydney and Anna, grudging respect as each is doing 'their job"...and dislike. I love to see them in action against one another.

Why do you think that Anna Espinosa would be on Sloane's "don't touch" list? Is it just the FoR thing? Or is there more behind it?

She was as was said in Season 1 a member of MoR a more 'violent' group of believers...I would like to bet that Sloane would be such a member. MORs would try to get the word of Rambaldi as Sloane tried/did. FOR members would protect her.

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?

If she doesn't, she isn't being prudent. Considering everything she's seen and heard and been through including the final words from her mother: "You too have been chosen." I believe that she and Nadia will part later on over the 'one' who killed their mother. But heck, what do I know considering everything that has gone on the previous 3 seasons...always a surprise.


We know that Sloane’s a believer. Why do you think that he said he thought only one of the sisters would return from the mission--if Anna got her way? Was that what he thought, or some sort of message to Sydney? Surely you don’t think the prophecy is in play at this early stage, right? Do you think he knows more about what the CRF is after than he's sharing?

The damned prophecy has been in play from the beginning of Sydney's birth. Irina is the key here...she is the mother of both sisters. Sloane's problem is that he isn't looking for peace...he's looking for the end result of Rambaldi's works. He's after power and I don't care how much anyone thinks good about him...HE ISN'T.

Do you think Jack’s a believer or not? In the past he has claimed not to believe, and he sent the sisters out with no problem, but I could see this signifying either way. What are your thoughts?

Jack has secrets, as you well know. He believes enough to know Sydney is in danger. He has been told by Sydney just what Irina said...so he's preparing or is prepared. He just is not saying anything about it to anyone.

What about Nadia? She hasn't taken a position yet. Do you think she will be a believer or not?

Interesting. I am not sure, but we'll certainly find out in the weeks to come.

Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean.
I believe what JJ believes. :angelic:
I do love this show.

:cool:
 
Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean, now.


I can't stand Rambaldi...I used to tolerate it, but now...I just hate it. I was fine until they brought they 15th century freak back. Life is what you make of it...not what some guys thinks you should make of it.

*rant over*

Although I'd like for Rambaldi to meet my uncle's Smith and Wesson and my best friend, Glock.

*runs away*
 
I just want the ghosts to go away.
Tell me about it.
~ Sydney and Vaughn

Let’s see . . . Rambaldi . . . Irina . . . Covenant . . . Sark . . . Anna . . . Lauren . . . and (drumroll, please) a for-real cliffhanger! That sound you’re hearing is the cries of “All is forgiven, Mr Abrams!” rising up to the heavens . . .

It was a rather gratifying episode, wasn't it? *lol* I swear the first ten minutes left me so jacked up I could barely understand what they were saying. I was just way too excited for my own good!

Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?

I don't know, I really don't think so. I mean, from the perspective of the plot, poor old Weiss has never had a love interest, and we all know he has been wanting one for a long time. Plus it is much less awkward for Syd, Vaughn and Weiss to hang out when Nadia is there. Add to that the friendship and sister relationship of Syd and Nadia and we end up with some socializing and personal life that has been sadly missing for the last year. I'm not saying that their relationship is just a plot device, but it does help to balance things out a bit. Also, I think deep down Weiss is bothered that just about everyone he knows and works with is already paired up in one way or another. I don't hink he wants to be the single guy anymore

Sark tells Vaughn that he loved Lauren. Is he telling the truth or playing with Vaughn’s head? If he’s telling the truth, why would he confide in Vaughn? If not, how would this lie help him manipulate Vaughn?

Honestly I don't care whether this is the truth or not. And for what it's worth, I don't think we will ever really know. This could be what Sark is saying in order to justify something else he is going to be doing down the road. It does seem like most of what he says to Vaughn is meant to mess with Vaughn's head, though. And truthfully I believe that it is Sark's own sense of inadequacy that leads him to do this. I'm probably alone in my opinion here, but I've never gotten over seeing Sark in the way that Sydney described him: "He's like the cute guy in school that won't take no for an answer." He's very smart, very calculating and very manipulative. However, to me he also is just a boy that wants what he can't have. In the end, I think the reason Sark pushes Vaughn's buttons is because he knows Vaughn has what Sark will never have: Sydney. Not to mention the fact that Vaughn did not realize that Lauren was evil. Sark loves to point this out over and over again to try to make up for the fact that Sydney Bristow wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why?

See what I said before... and to show Vaughn up of course. Perhaps Sark knows that the information that the CIA needs will necessitate the three of them working together. Sark, I think, is trying to undermine Vaughn so that he will feel threatened by Sark when Sydney is around. Which might work for him just fine, however, I think that if indeed Vaughn gets jealous, then that will only serve to better the situation between Vaughn and Sydney, bringing issues that need to be worked through to the surface. So maybe in a couple of weeks some of us will be thanking Sark! (sorry off topic a tad) Anyway, in summation, I think Sark knows that Lauren's deception really hurt Vaughn, bringing it up only serves to rub salt in the wound, hoping that later on he will get to hit him where it really hurts with Sydney.

Turning to Vaughn. He tells Sark that he “couldn’t care less about” Lauren, but that’s not what he said a few weeks ago--and he hasn’t amended that statement to Sydney as far as we know. He told Sark the punch wasn’t about Lauren, but didn’t say what it was for. Why did Vaughn hit Sark, and how does he feel about Lauren, anyway? Is their struggle about ego?

I think that Vaughn cares more about the fact that Lauren deceived him than he does about her at this point. During season 3 he was ready to leave her and did not even seem that upset about it, but he was VERY upset when Sydney and later Jack suggested that Lauren might have been the mole. Did Vaughn love Lauren? I believe at some point, yes, however, I think that the real reason that he hit Sark was not because of latent feelings towards Lauren, rather, the feelings of frustration over having been deceived by her. Sark knew the real Lauren. Vaughn didn't. Even if Vaughn had fallen out of love with Lauren in the end, that doesn't feel good.

Nadia apparently receives info about the bomb that we don't. Want to speculate? Is this bomb more than just the usual McGuffin?

If I had to guess I would say that they are trying to come between Nadia and Sydney, and that they told Nadia that the bomb was something that Sydney would end up using to destroy someone or something very important. If she was not meant to bring about some great destruction, then why is she such a curse?

Why do you think that Anna Espinosa would be on Sloane's "don't touch" list? Is it just the FoR thing? Or is there more behind it?

Yes, probably, but who knows at this point. I always think anybody Rambaldi connected is working with Sloane. So I think they are in cahoots. Maybe there is some informatino that we don't have have yet that suggests they were working together at some point.

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?

I'm not sure. She did see the 500 yr. old flower after all... and all those people that spontaneously caught on fire in the church. I think that would make a believer out of me. I think after all she's seen that it would be hard not to believe in the prophecies, so she must be refusing, thinking that ultimately what she does has something to do with her own free will and that she will have the power to choose not to take action in ways that will make the prophecies true. In her heart, I think she believes, but I also think she thinks she will have the power to change her fate. I think Nadia getting shot will only make Sydney mad. She will want to dispose of those who seek to make his prophecies come true.

We know that Sloane’s a believer. Why do you think that he said he thought only one of the sisters would return from the mission--if Anna got her way? Was that what he thought, or some sort of message to Sydney? Surely you don’t think the prophecy is in play at this early stage, right? Do you think he knows more about what the CRF is after than he's sharing?

It was a message to Sydney. That SOB? Of course he knows more than he's sharing.

Do you think Jack’s a believer or not? In the past he has claimed not to believe, and he sent the sisters out with no problem, but I could see this signifying either way. What are your thoughts?

It is hard to say what Jack believes. But judging by what great lengths he always goes to to protect Sydney, my guess is he believes. I don't know, however why he would send them both out.

What about Nadia? She hasn't taken a position yet. Do you think she will be a believer or not?

I think they will make her believe. That in itself may be very dangerous.
 
verdantheart said:
Discuss . . .

Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?

I think there is more to the Syd/Anna relationship than meets the eye.  Since Anna is a long-time follower of Rambaldi maybe she is jealous because Sydney is "The Chosen One". 

Nadia apparently receives info about the bomb that we don't. Want to speculate? Is this bomb more than just the usual McGuffin?

When Syd first got the important ingredient for the "bomb" she was told that "this is the last remaining sample, they should treat it as if it were sacred" it made me wonder if it had anything to do with Syd's elusive eggs from last season.


Think about Vaughn/Sark and Sydney/Anna. Any comparisons or contrasts that you’d like to make?

I love these pairings.  Gina Torres is amazing, I wish she were around more.  I think that Vaughn and Syd represent all things good and Sark and Anna represent all things evil.  They are each the Yin to the others Yang.

Why do you think that Anna Espinosa would be on Sloane's "don't touch" list? Is it just the FoR thing? Or is there more behind it?

I think that there is more behind it.  I don't think the CIA trusts Sloane, especially in dealing with anything Rambaldi.  I also have to wonder if Anna worked for Sloane in the past or is still working for him.

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?

I think Syd has to believe, she's seen too much happen that was prophecied.  I think she wants to make some of them not come true and she will fight it until the end.

We know that Sloane’s a believer. Why do you think that he said he thought only one of the sisters would return from the mission--if Anna got her way? Was that what he thought, or some sort of message to Sydney? Surely you don’t think the prophecy is in play at this early stage, right? Do you think he knows more about what the CRF is after than he's sharing?

I always think the worst of Sloane, so I think he knows more than he's sharing.  I have to wonder if Sloane represents the O of the symbol.  Wouldn't that be fitting.  Syd and Nadia fighting over Sloane.  Syd wants to kill him and Nadia wants to protect him and they both get caught in the crossfire and Sloane walks away unharmed????

Do you think Jack’s a believer or not? In the past he has claimed not to believe, and he sent the sisters out with no problem, but I could see this signifying either way. What are your thoughts?

Jack has as many secrets, if not more, than Sloane.  I think he's a believer, I think he's always been a believer.  Quite possibly he could be a bigger believer than Sloane.  I think he let the sisters go with no problem because he knew that this wasn't the time for the prophecy to be fulfilled.
 
ALiAs_AgEnT_423 Posted Today, 05:04 PM
I can't stand Rambaldi...I used to tolerate it, but now...I just hate it. I was fine until they brought they 15th century freak back. Life is what you make of it...not what some guys thinks you should make of it.
That's true...and that will probably be the final story...life is what Sydney will make of it and not what Rambaldi thinks will happen.
In the final showdown, what Sydney does will ultimately be the end of him. Lets hope it will be the end of Sloane.
:cool:
 
I don't know if anyone mentioned it before, but I didn't have the time to read everyones reply. In one prequels about Alias, Infiltration, Sydney meets for the first time with Anna Espinosa and really what Sydney did at K-Directorate at that time, well Anna didn't like it and it was personal. So maybe the writers read Infiltration after season 3 and thought, let's bring Anna back, with thta history in the back of their heads??? :thinking:
 
Let’s see . . . Rambaldi . . . Irina . . . Covenant . . . Sark . . . Anna . . . Lauren . . . and (drumroll, please) a for-real cliffhanger! That sound you’re hearing is the cries of “All is forgiven, Mr Abrams!” rising up to the heavens . . .
Hallelujah for the cliffhanger! :D

Sorry, season 3 writers, I still don’t buy the idea that Nadia was somehow able to auto-write all of this Rambaldi felgercarb while in pain and half-delirious, alter it, and decode it all at once. And now she’s hallucinating at the same time?! Sorry. Nope. Too much. I thought it was ridiculous then and it's even more ridiculous now. You can have the automatic writing, the pain, the alterations, the delirium, and the hallucinations, but I draw the line at the in-the-head decryption! If Marshall can’t do it in his head, she can’t do it in hers--and definitely not under those circumstances. Forget it!
Oh, I didn't notice that she mentioned she was hallucinating while writing and decrypting in delerious pain...I have to go watch it again. Perhaps she was visualising the text? *shrugs* Hmm, my memory on S3 is quite vague.


Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?
Erm, I don't care too much for Wadia, but maybe Weiss is moving to fast. Considering Sydney and Vaughn have first-hand experience with romance in the workplace they know a thing or two at the problems ahead for Weiss and Nadia. Its possible Nadia might break Weiss' heart...or Sydney/Vaughn are jealous?

Sark tells Vaughn that he loved Lauren. Is he telling the truth or playing with Vaughn’s head? If he’s telling the truth, why would he confide in Vaughn? If not, how would this lie help him manipulate Vaughn?
Perhaps Sark is putting salt on Vaughn's wound by revisiting the Lauren issue...throw in a pinch of jealousy and its clear that Vaughn hasn't completely dealt with Lauren by choosing denial. Its possible that Sark geniuely loved Lauren but his "loyalties are flexible" so who knows ;)

Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why?

On the surface, it appears that Sark went through all that trouble to place himself in a better position to bargin. In the first proposition, Sark was on Vaughn's territory and even though he had the snide remarks the balance of power was in Vaughn's favour.

Turning to Vaughn. He tells Sark that he “couldn’t care less about” Lauren, but that’s not what he said a few weeks ago--and he hasn’t amended that statement to Sydney as far as we know. He told Sark the punch wasn’t about Lauren, but didn’t say what it was for. Why did Vaughn hit Sark, and how does he feel about Lauren, anyway? Is their struggle about ego?
Despite Vaughn's admission about his love for Lauren, it seems like he hasn't let go of his demons just yet and continues to live in a state of denial. It also feels like that he loathed Sark for having a connection with Lauren that he never had...or that Sark took something from him.

Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?
Since she's a devoted follower of Rambaldi, perhaps she's trying to influence the path of one of the focal items in the prophecy equation.

I think the Rambaldi brand is important ways...I'm just not sure how. Other people who bear the brand have it on their left hand (thinking back on previous episodes)...why did Anna brand Nadia on the back of her neck?

Think about Vaughn/Sark and Sydney/Anna. Any comparisons or contrasts that you’d like to make?

Archenemies that have wreaked havoc on one another's lives. Often striving to achieve/obtain the same goal, therefore, always competing against one another. Both equal in skill, intuition and passion -- just on opposite sides of the fence.

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?
If I remember correctly, Sydney has been vocal about her disbelief concerning all things Rambaldi, but the fact that she takes the effort to avert "prophecies" implies that she does believe in it to some extent. She seems to have the type of personality where she cannot fathom having no control over her life and her "fate".

We know that Sloane’s a believer. Why do you think that he said he thought only one of the sisters would return from the mission--if Anna got her way? Was that what he thought, or some sort of message to Sydney? Surely you don’t think the prophecy is in play at this early stage, right? Do you think he knows more about what the CRF is after than he's sharing?
I mentioned in another thread that I thought it was interesting how Sloane temporarily removed himself as head of operations - thus, having no direct involvement in a mission concerning Rambaldi and the many people who have dedicated years to his cause. Everyone has secrets and Sloane has many.

What about Nadia? She hasn't taken a position yet. Do you think she will be a believer or not?
It was interesting how she reacted to the image of Rambaldi's sign...as if she knows more than she has told. I think there was a time she did believe in Rambaldi (a strong factor in her decision to search for an artifact with a man who forced her to transcribe the writings of Rambaldi). It would be interesting to see if she's a believer or not.

Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean, now. ;)

I haven't seen the last half of S1 so I missed out on some vital background info on Rambaldi. I'm a sucker for the big, over-arcing storylines and its interesting to have a glimpse at the end of the story but not knowing if the characters will make the choices that will have that result. I believe in the prophesies, but some things never go to plan...
 
fu stuff this week verdy :smiley: grreat column! (y)

Both Sydney and Vaughn seem to worry about Nadia breaking Weiss’ heart. Vaughn, upset that Sydney’s “taking it slow,” tells Weiss that he should do just that. Is this what we should worry about, or is there any chance Weiss could break Nadia’s heart?So glad you said this cos I laughed out loud when Vaughn said it!! :lol: guess its ok with him if Weiss is left hanging!! :lol: I think it;s kind of insulting to Wiess that neither Syd nor Vaughn believe Nadia actually fancies him - I mean, he's funny, he's cute and he's a really nice guy - why should he take it slow??

Sark tells Vaughn that he loved Lauren. Is he telling the truth or playing with Vaughn’s head? If he’s telling the truth, why would he confide in Vaughn? If not, how would this lie help him manipulate Vaughn? Probably lying - as you said - why share this with vaughn , if its true it just gives him amunition.

Sark obviously meant to deal all along. Why the run-around? Was it really for the fun, for a better bargaining position, or to show Vaughn up? What do you think the most important reason was for Sark? Why? Def for the fun of showing up Vaughn and the CIA (and well Jack actually since it was his op) but also - we don't know where else Sark went in the time it took him to get to SA and before the tracker wemt off - so who knows what else he was up to.

Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna? Anna is a follower of Rambaldi and Sydney is the one who is meant to cause "utter desolation"but if Sydney is also the one to "bring forth my works" then I don't understand whgy any follower would want to kill her - i mean look at Sloane - he wanted Sydney alive to collect all the rambaldi pieces. My guess is the rift is a personal ego battle - the last few times thi pair met Sydney outsmarted Anna and my bet is she doesn't like that.

Nadia apparently receives info about the bomb that we don't. Want to speculate? Is this bomb more than just the usual McGuffin? yeah i wondered abou this - what did he whipser/?????

Think about Vaughn/Sark and Sydney/Anna. Any comparisons or contrasts that you’d like to make? yeah the ego battle of the sexes thing fits both pairs methinks (y)

Why do you think that Anna Espinosa would be on Sloane's "don't touch" list? Is it just the FoR thing? Or is there more behind it? probably the rambaldi thing.

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect? i think she doesn't want to believe them - she has seen enough to know his prpohecies can come true - she even said this to nadia - but to believe your life is laid to plan for you by an old guy is a biut hard to accept - especially if you are a spy. I don't think Nadia being shot will effect her judgement .

We know that Sloane’s a believer. Why do you think that he said he thought only one of the sisters would return from the mission--if Anna got her way? Was that what he thought, or some sort of message to Sydney? Surely you don’t think the prophecy is in play at this early stage, right? Do you think he knows more about what the CRF is after than he's sharing? Yes i do think he knows more than he's sharing. But my guess is Nadia also knows whatever sloane knows now too ;)

Do you think Jack’s a believer or not? In the past he has claimed not to believe, and he sent the sisters out with no problem, but I could see this signifying either way. What are your thoughts? hmm this always made me think. i never made up my mind tbh.

What about Nadia? She hasn't taken a position yet. Do you think she will be a believer or not? not sure

Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean, now. well from everything we have seen I would think we should believe rambaldi - we have seen so many of his theories be proved and i can't remember any not happening......so i guess yesi believe in rambaldi.
 
Any idea why Anna would be so hell-bent on “destroying” Sydney? Do you think the brand is supposed to help in ways other than to serve as a constant reminder of the FoR? Why is it so personal between Sydney and Anna?

I feel that Anna is so for destroying Sydney because she is a supreme follower of Rambaldi, therefore, she will stop at nothing to see the prophecy come to fruition. I also feel that Anna and Sydney have a past, one in which Sydney has usually come out on tope, I feel some sort of rivalry. Both Syd and Anna are great agents working on opposite sides of the good and bad spectrum, I think it is only natural for them to absolutely detest one another and wish the worst upon the other.

Do you think Sydney really doesn’t believe the prophecies, or she’s refusing to believe them? That is, do you think, in her heart of hearts, she believes them or not? Do you think Nadia’s getting shot will make her more or less predisposed to believe in them--or have no effect?


I do feel that Sydney believes, it goes back to an episode in season1 where Syd was coming to grips with the fact that she was the Chosen One. If she believes she is the Chosen One she has no choice but to believe the other things. Nadia being shot will probably place that notion in the back of Sydneys mind, and it will remind her of the prophecy.

Now, are you a believer? Do you believe in Rambaldi's prophesies? Come clean, now.

Im going to have to say I believe I am. This is only because i feel Nadia is going to turn to the dark side before the end of the season.(thats only my personal guess). I have come to find you can't trust a soul on Alias, except Marshall and Weiss. (everyone else, always suspect there is something lingering beneath the surface. (I might need to add Dixon, too just because i <3 him) Even Sydney has a darker side that has surfaced in various times. I am a believer of Rambaldi and am banking on the finale dealing with the exact notion the prophecy predicts.
 
White_Rabbit said:
so many of the lines and relationships seemed forced, that I felt like throwing up. This show should not seem forced, and it does.
[post="1235737"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​
Ooh, a dissenting opinion . . . no, really, thanks for sharing it. With so many people on the other side of the fence, it's kinda good to hear from people thinking :puke:--though it can't be happy to be doing it, huh?

Frankly, I felt that things were more forced last season, with Lauren completely cold-hearted one week and then caring about Dixon's kids the next, leaving us going :blink: this does not compute.

SkyGirl5 said:
noooooooo i'm so sick of rambaldi .... make it end please - or at least no more new divices please... i did enjoy that whole < this is one of my daughters > this is the other and this O is them fighting thing --- very interesting never woudl have guessed that one ;)
[post="1235992"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​
You know, I'm not sure that I'm completely on board with the re-envisioning of the Rambaldi eye. Now it has this double meaning. Now that is a little forced. Oh, well, I'm willing to run with it . . . but this had better be good! :lol: ;)

ALiAs_AgEnT_423 said:
I can't stand Rambaldi...I used to tolerate it, but now...I just hate it. I was fine until they brought they 15th century freak back. Life is what you make of it...not what some guys thinks you should make of it.
Hee hee, that might even be the eventual point of this. ;)

Rambaldi: that love him or hate him guy. Everybody seems to jes' lurve Irina, but they couldn't bring her back even in spirit without dragging Rambaldi back in with her, don'cha know . . . :lol:

spydancer said:
And truthfully I believe that it is Sark's own sense of inadequacy that leads him to do this.  I'm probably alone in my opinion here, but I've never gotten over seeing Sark in the way that Sydney described him:  "He's like the cute guy in school that won't take no for an answer."  He's very smart, very calculating and very  manipulative.  However, to me he also is just a boy that wants what he can't have.  In the end, I think the reason Sark pushes Vaughn's buttons is because he knows Vaughn has what Sark will never have: Sydney.  Not to mention the fact that Vaughn did not realize that Lauren was evil.  Sark loves to point this out over and over again to try to make up for the fact that Sydney Bristow wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

Sark, I think, is trying to undermine Vaughn so that he will feel threatened by Sark when Sydney is around.  Which might work for him just fine, however, I think that if indeed Vaughn gets jealous, then that will only serve to better the situation between Vaughn and Sydney, bringing issues that need to be worked through to the surface. 

I think that Vaughn cares more about the fact that Lauren deceived him than he does about her at this point.  During season 3 he was ready to leave her and did not even seem that upset about it, but he was VERY upset when Sydney and later Jack suggested that Lauren might have been the mole.  Did Vaughn love Lauren?  I believe at some point, yes, however, I think that the real reason that he hit Sark was not because of latent feelings towards Lauren, rather, the feelings of frustration over having been deceived by her.  Sark knew the real Lauren.  Vaughn didn't.  Even if Vaughn had fallen out of love with Lauren in the end, that doesn't feel good.
Good points. I have argued, and will (if anyone forces me to), that Sark is a superior field agent to Vaughn (and certainly he has had more experience), and he knows it. However, he seems compelled to rub it in, doesn't he? He's always respected Sydney's skills and lusted after her--but who has her? Vaughn. Vaughn, whom Sark has bested in the field on several occasions--who had to turn to him to disarm a bomb with a captive audience. Sark is aware that his character is lacking--perhaps this bothers him, even if it is only because it doesn't get him everything he thinks he wants. Or does it go deeper? Can it be that deep down he actually cares that he's "wrong"? Is it all just a case of rebellion against those who "have"? Well, interesting, maybe eventually his motivations might start to work out . . .

But, more to the point, Vaughn has a huge tendency to bury large emotional messes, and if Sark manages to mine some of these, terrific. Vaughn needs to deal.

In her heart, I think she believes, but I also think she thinks she will have the power to change her fate.  I think Nadia getting shot will only make Sydney mad.  She will want to dispose of those who seek to make his prophecies come true. 
[post="1236305"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​
She's awfully passionate about not believing, huh? ^_^

jess said:
Oh, I didn't notice that she mentioned she was hallucinating while writing and decrypting in delerious pain...I have to go watch it again. 
Well, all of these things had to happen under influence of the GRE, so it pretty much had to be simultaneous . . . :blink:

What about Nadia? She hasn't taken a position yet. Do you think she will be a believer or not?
It was interesting how she reacted to the image of Rambaldi's sign...as if she knows more than she has told.  . . .  It would be interesting to see if she's a believer or not.
[post="1236791"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​
Good point . . . there was that doctor who was watching over her and so on . . .
✌️
 
Back
Top