The Value of Wyr

[Korama]

Going back and rereading the MMORPG.com article from a couple of days ago has raised a couple of questions/concerns in my mind.

In the article they say, "Players can collect wyr, which are like an evolution of City of Villains enhancements, through quests, monster bashing, trading, etc." which sounds cool and all but then they also say this, "there are multiple wyr slots on objects for different levels (rarities) of wyr."

So, let's see, we have these highly sought after enhancements called wyr, they have different rarities and they can be traded. My concern is, are we going to have to worry about the cost of these wyr getting out of hand? Will only the richest of players possess the rarest, most powerful wyr?

Say what you want about World of Warcraft (and believe me, I've said plenty myself) but they had a pretty decent system with the "Bind on Pick-up" and "Bind on Equip" items. I hope that there is a different but similarly effective control like that in HJ that will effect the rarest of wyr. Trading and selling common wyr should be allowed and even encouraged but, if extremely hard to get wyr are able to be sold and traded then I fear that could lead to farming and camping. That in turn would lead to exorbitantly priced wyr in the market which would likely lead to gold sellers and buyers which would lead to a less than ideal economy.

Has anyone heard anymore information on this? Does anyone have any ideas on how to avoid this problem in the first place?

 

[Jaraeth]

Check out the article that was just posted. They go into a little more detail on Wyr. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Wyr won't be quite as tradeable and collectable as people might think. I won't spoil it here, but go read that article, I think it's actually fairly cool with what they're doing. I'm still trying to form my opinion on how this would impact an economy, but I don't see it ruining it with the way it's leaning...

HEROSHALL.COM

~ Jaraeth

 

[Arremus]

Hehe I loved this comment on the grouping system:

It will cause issues with hard core players of MMOs though that feel you need to earn your way to the top. That is not the market being targeted by Hero’s Journey though.

Am so glad Simu are going beyond the "You have to grind to 70 and have the uber GenericBestLoot gear to join our uberthebest raid guild! And if you don't try, you're a nobody!" bullshyte.

This system will no doubt get the backs up of the elitist asshats that frequent EQ2 and other simular games now, and will hopefully make those types look elsewhere.
But then, that's what Vanguard is being made to cater towards afterall.

Love the new info, can't wait to see it in action!

 

[Seeria]

A GM can correct me but I never ever saw anything saying armor comes with stats. NEVER EVER........

Which means Wyr is how we upgrade our armor.. it's how we get higher stats at higher lvls.

It is what allows us to pick whatever style of clothing we want to wear... the armor has no stats. You use wyr to make it something other than a statless cool outfit.

I'm guessing those three levels, or maybe more, are level restricted. Can't have a level 1 being empowered with the wyr of a 50.

Best I've seen on acquiring wyr is via quests. They might drop off mobs but it sounds like you have to do the good ole roleplaying adventure the GM's make with their nifty instances in order to earn Wyr. I'd go for that. Seeing how they work DR... I'm would be shocked if they allow more rare Wyr to just be found... you have to earn things in their games. Read some threads here about roleplay for an idea.

As for farming...farming can't be stopped. I've seen darn near ever mmo out and it's a simply fact, if you offer an item that is going to drop and is tradable or makable and tradable... you will have a farm fest. One of those sad facts about games... sort of like there will always be a foul mouthed jerk on every server.

In in WoW's case... hundreds of them.

 

[Czidvar]

I don't think it will be an issue. Simu knows how to handle an economy, although even I admit its getting (pretty much gotten) out of hand in DragonRealms. Though there there is a certain privelege(?) mechanism that people abuse, despite rules against using it in that way, that when paired with a certain guild can mean 0 personal effort = mucho grande bank account (to be fair they do try to catch them without taking away an asset that is also valuable to the rest of the population.)

Total available wealth is always the biggest culprit in things like that happening. If everyone makes money at a similar rate, then things can only really sell for a reasonable amount, not sell at all. Although to some people that Wand of Penkey Summoning might be worth all the gold they made in the past year.

They pay big attention to economy and have dealt with handling them for a long time. They may not have perfected it yet, but they take everything as a learning experience and will make sure to adjust.

Czi

Seriously guys, maybe you should pay me.

 

[Ikiru]

Great article there thanks for posting it !

After reading more on Wyr, I can't help but think of the simularities it has with materia in the Final Fantasy games. Not a bad thing at all as I've always wanted a MMO with something similar to the classic rpg series. Add to that the simularities with CoH/CoV's enhancements and I'm a pretty happy camper with how Wyr is turning out. Question comes up though, I remember in early interviews of HJ it was said items could be leveled up. Is this still in? If I get a axe I really like can I "level it" and will its Wyr slots evolve with it ?



Thank for the grouping system! I don't have to worry about keeping up with my friends now!

 

[frostydf2]

I really don't see the problem with people being 'more rich', or 'more powerful' then others. That needs to happen still in every game. Their should always be the elite, and more rich. If not, everyone would be equal, how fun is that?

 

[Czidvar]

True, but it will not be to an insane degree. When that happens inflation happens and only those with a great amount of money can buy most anything. Those who don't accumulate it as fast start to get left in the dust. The trick is pulling that wealth out of the economy before it gets TOO great. There could be a few ways to do that, but I have never seen it in a graphics based game.

I tend to get very busy with school and working on films or whatever project i have. Sometimes that means little to no playing time at all. Which means that I am making money even slower, which is understandable. I sure don't like having to spend my hard earned cash (if I even have any) on game currency just so I can buy a decent item. I have done it before, and I really don't want to do it here.

I understand thats a fault of my own for not having enough time, but I should still be able to afford something good, it just might take me a little longer. I don't want to sit and give examples cause then it becomes a crazy rant.

I wasn't calling for communist equalitarian economy or anything. Just that letting it get out of hand can become frustrating and less fun. Just like in real life!

But again, I don't think it will be a huge issue here. The way things are set up and their experience with these things I personally trust it will be handled very well.

Czi

 

[frostydf2]

I understand what you're saying, but still I belive their would be a need for an economy where people have a lot more then others. I also noted that you said you didn't have much time to play at times. That's understandable, and I'm pretty sure Hero's Journey wont make you be years behind the competition becuase you missed a few days of playing time.

Those who play the most, and the best, should be noted the best by their wallets, and gear

Just wanted to point out that the new E3 article from TTH kind of explains the Wyr system a bit more, and how it'll be balanced. Some Wyr can only be used once, whereas others have a certain amount they can be de-socketed. That could help with inflation of what you're thinking of

 

[Czidvar]

Oh right, I expect if you play more you will still be richer and more powerful, no doubt. But we would all have the same potential and opportunities to make money. Maybe I can explain to you the big problem I am referring to from another game sometime off the boards. Its a bit hairy, and I don't want to get into it here. But there will always be inequality, but only because someone is truly working harder than someone else.

Czi

 

[PrestoAdam]

Wyr poses an interesting problem.

If the only way to upgrade weapons and armor is through Wyr, and Wyr are commodities that can be bought and sold, then the goal of the game will be to get as rich as possible to buy the best Wyr.

He who controls the best Wyr, has the best character.

If, on the other hand, only lower level Wyr are commodities, then only at the beginning of the game will those with money have an advantage. At higher levels, Wyr would be soulbound, and thus wealth would not enable their acquisition.

Now, here's a question. Can Wyr go up levels? Can we mature our Wyr, or are they static in their abilities? If we can mature our Wyr, can we then sell them? So, something like a crafted Wyr?

 

[Jaraeth]

Remember that according to the article, some Wyr can only be used once, worn by a certain gender/class/race or what have you. Unlike many games where items can be repaired or never degrade, there will always be a flow of Wyr through the economy, and a great demand.

Those who charge alot will most likely never get paid as others may come to realize there is greater wealth in selling a lot of Wyr cheaper, than holding back and charging more. Think of it this way: Wal-Mart sells HJ retail boxes for $50, and the store two blocks away, Frys Electronics, sells it for $40. Who is going to sell more in that area? Frys will. I can attest to this since there is a Frys Electronics near me and no one in my area talks about Wal-Mart unless you are referring to "bargain bin" items.

Though, the opposite could ring true. It does depend on the players in the game, and how much control GM's exert into maintaining economy fairness. Only time will truly tell.

~ Jaraeth

 

[JonDDA]

Very interesting thread indeed.

I think with the way they have the Wyr system set up, with the way only a certain race/gender/class can use certain Wyr, and some Wyr can be used once, twice etc. . ., that it should really balance the way the Wyr economy is, and should help prevent what everyone fears.

And If you can level up your armor, im sure you can level up your Wyr, though I could be wrong for im just a mere peasant waiting for HJ.

But I have faith in Simu, they won't let us down.

 

[Seeria]

Originally posted by Presto@May 14 2006, 06:55 PM
If the only way to upgrade weapons and armor is through Wyr, and Wyr are commodities that can be bought and sold, then the goal of the game will be to get as rich as possible to buy the best Wyr.
He who controls the best Wyr, has the best character.

.....

If the goal of game is based on who has the biggest pockets or have the biggest Wyr *laugh*....

Then the game sucks and the world is ending.

Thank the gods of Elanthia that neither is true.

There are other assests to game than Wyr, there has to be. You're a market type player aren't you? *laugh* You are the type that live in the Bazaar or Auction House and never leave. Come on, admit it.

 

[Korama]

Originally posted by Jaraeth@May 14 2006, 12:58 AM
Check out the article that was just posted. They go into a little more detail on Wyr. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Wyr won't be quite as tradeable and collectable as people might think. I won't spoil it here, but go read that article, I think it's actually fairly cool with what they're doing. I'm still trying to form my opinion on how this would impact an economy, but I don't see it ruining it with the way it's leaning...

HEROSHALL.COM

~ Jaraeth

That was a great article. I still have some concerns but I agree that there are some positive developments in there.

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies in this thread too guys. I really love the community here!

Honestly, having the most "powerful" character isn't what matters the most to me. I just want to make sure that casual players like myself, if they choose to, will have an opportunity to obtain at least some rare wyr instead of leaving it all to the hardcore players or gold buyers. But, like JonDDA said, I don't really think Simu will let us down.

 

[Czidvar]

The good part will be your groups of friends. Trade wyr, not sell them. I'm a Stoneborn warrior, your a Human wizard, hey ill give you my human only wyr for one of your warrior wyrs! Oh wonderful, happy happy day! Yippee!

That should be a huge asset alone, and help keep the economy in check. At least the way I see it. It wont be like the DR bazaar where its mostly traders who control all this merchandise... everyone will be able to get their hands on it, so everyone holds control over price.

At least I hope you guys aren't going to make me sell my virtual kidneys for rogue wyr!

Czi

 

[PrestoAdam]

If you haven't seen this yet, check out the newest Wyr page just added to Hero's Hall.

HEROSHALL.COM

 

[Daax]

Wow, that explaines wyr perfectly. I'm so psyched about this new system. It's perfect in every way.

 

[Morneblade]

I'm hoping that HJ is not going to have large gaps in player economical stature. Games like EQ that highly reward powergamers, people that have no life, exc. I hopeing that it caters more to the "core gamers", people that only have a couple hours to play per day. And emphasis mroe on RPing that people trying to be "uber". We have enough of those games already. I liked CoH for that reason, and I kinda hope HJ goes that route. If everyone is a Hero, then no reason for everyone not to be well off.

 

[Daax]

It does emphasize on roleplaying. I read somewhere that roleplaying will be rewarded ingame.