What is the =maximum= that you'd be willing to pay for a game?

[Sylvado]

Does your tank of gas run out after you enjoyed it for 4 hours a day?
You watch less than 6 hours of cable a day?
Frig, you need to pack your lunches.

75 bucks a month for a game you have limited control over each time you pay the fee is insane.

I spend $50 and fill up the tank, after 235 miles I have to pay more to continue.

I watch much less than 6 hours a day and most of the time I am at my computer at the same time.

20 work days a month, $5 for a cheap lunch. I do take leftovers from home sometimes. It costs me $12 a day just to commute to work.

How often do you read a book more than once but you will pay $10-30 for a few hours to read it.

 

[Sylvado]

That they'd use once?

EDIT: I'll tack this on. I do set up their network and telephony for them if they need it. I'll test on the new office's end to make sure any network they need communicates. I've had to go out of my way a few times to change up hareware of even create lil' programs to get things to work out at remote locations. All part of the fee. I even get their signs ready and their bills started on whatever info they entrust to me. It's not just moving furniture.

So if they just get a furniture setup or a whole package with communications they get charged the same flat fee?

 

[Luciro]

I spend $50 and fill up the tank, after 235 miles I have to pay more to continue.

I watch much less than 6 hours a day and most of the time I am at my computer at the same time.

20 work days a month, $5 for a cheap lunch. I do take leftovers from home sometimes. It costs me $12 a day just to commute to work.

How often do you read a book more than once but you will pay $10-30 for a few hours to read it.

I pay like 7.95 for paper backs. Plus if it's something I need that's more than that, there's the library. But here's the other thing.. You need to work, eat, and switch to DISH. I pay 30 bucks a month for the basics and keep CNN or Bloom running my waking hours.
75 bucks a month for a game you won't need. Isn't comparable. You're denying yourself something for that much cash tossed towards a recreation. Compare it to skiing. Boating. Painting minitures. Or something.

 

[Jaraeth]

How much do you pay just to connect to the internet?

$35/mo.

How much for a night out drinking?

$0.00 I don't drink, and I don't go out except to see movies, or dinner. I would do that anyway, with or without games, and there would be no increase or decrease in my spending with or without computer games, therefor I don't factor "going out" as part of that.

I spend over $75 a week just for gas in my car.

Ouch... I spend $25 every week and a half. Even on my days off of work, and there's power outages or boredom sets in, I still don't drive that often. I don't figure cost of gas into money I might be saving by gaming.

Cable TV is over $75/mo.

Mine is $35/mo. Digital Cable, no fancy packages, as I don't care about sports or movie packages.

Eating lunch at work is over $75/mo.

I brown bag my lunch. PB&J or Tuna or lunch meat.


I pay $110/mo for one package: Digital Telephone, Cable & Internet. I have a cheap 4 cyl car: $20/week on gas, maybe. I still do all that I would without a computer, except now I IM my friends "Hey, wanna go see a movie?" rather than call. Maybe with all my stuff costing me an average of $20/mo is why I'm willing only to spend $20/mo where you spend alot more, and are used to it.

~ Jaraeth

 

[Sylvado]

Compare it to skiing. Boating.

I couldn't touch either of those for $75 an outing let alone a month.

 

[Sabastian]

See what we have here? Everyone is different, some need a bit more some need a bit less. Choices are good. Choices = Tiers. A company cant just sit back an cater to one type of client. Well, most can't. Two guys and a truck may be able to move you for $55 an hour, but were talking software here.

Luciro, you didn't answer this question, "So if they just get a furniture setup or a whole package with communications they get charged the same flat fee?" Why did you skip answering it? Could your flat fee be based on what they want done? Do you survay the site before the work and give an estimate? Lots of people don't trust an hourly fee quote. What if your a slow worker? Cable runs in twenty foot drop cellings can get awful expenseive too. What about the grade of cable you use? The types of clips and connectors? How about the types of bricks for the coper? The brand of test equipment you use? That stuff is tierd my friend. It's hard to run the wires and thats alot of damn wire in an office with high cellings. You could go out of business awful quick.The two guys and a truck example above is a flat fee, but they have exceptions ... pool talbes and pianos just weigh too damn much, so they cost extra.

PS. I used to run CAT5 and set up Siemans PBX Hicom 300's & 500's as well as Nortel boxes, back in mid 90's.

 

[Kuzzle]

Well, I don't feel like quoting everyone, and I don't remember half of what's been said already, so you'll have to bare with my through my semi-coherent ramblings...

I don't agree with Sabastian, I do agree with Luciro, and I think it'd be cool to get one of those boats with the peddles and peddle around a lake for an hour or so... Wait... Yeah, that was almost the "boating" thing, but not quite... Oh, yeah, $75 for cable is ridiculous...

...Anyway, I think that actually sounds cool, Div. I'd be willing to pay a few bucks for something like that every now and then, just so long as it wasn't, like, a required thing. By that, of course, I don't mean actually required, just percieved as such. Plus, if there was the opportunity for unique items, I'd do it fairly often. I need something to make my character not just background noise for more skilled people. Or, at least, make him a catchy jingle. I understand that these items would likely only look different, but I'm fine with that. If it's unique, it doesn't really matter if it does anything or not.

The issue here, though, is with immersion. It could, understandably, be percieved in the same light as buying game money with real money. It is, after all, paying extra real money to obtain a boost, if only to your own pride. I mean, say someone has a rich character, and their friend says "Hey, I want to go to the carnival that just came into town! Come with me!" Well, their friend would be a jackass for saying it like that, but anyway... If that person was broke in real life, they'd have to decline, and, I think that could be considered immersion breaking. You guys'd have to be careful as to how you presented this, if you decided to include it. Otherwise, it could be a reason for people to choose a different game. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the idea, but I'm sure there are people out there who would. I just think that you'd be less likely to attract roleplayers with this, and more likely to attract powergamers... Hopefully I'm a fool.

Bad ideas to increase people acceptance of the idea:

1: Cut the price down to $2-3, as $5 is the first step up the price ladder. Under that, it's percieved as insignificant, above it it's percieved as a "this could add up" type of thing.

2: Give each player a token when they first start out so they can attend one of these events for free, giving them the chance at a cool item, and letting them decide if it's something they would want to repeat. If it's not, they still won't have any hard feelings, because they'll know exactly what the events are like, and, well, they've done it...

3: Have an in-game lottery where the winner gets to go on one of these events for free. It'll make it seem, I don't know, like you guys are more open with your money. Make you seem more personable.

4: Include a cheesemonger in the game. Even if it doesn't actually do a whole lot, people will love it. That, or let me have a goat at my character's house. If you do, I'll punch the first person I see who speaks ill of the events. Seriously, if I see someone in real life, I'll deck 'em... Well, unless they're a woman, then I'll just scowl. Seriously, I want a goat...

And that concludes my list of (most likely) bad ideas for making the events seem more "player-friendly." Have a safe drive home, everyone.

 

[Ikiru]

pfft just get a media center then download all your stuff from the inter....er wait that's illegal.../innocent whistle

 

[Kuzzle]

Oh, I forgot to adress something. I like buying the actual box and CD and stuff, but, since I live out in the boonies, having to buy the expansions in a store can be... problematic.

I know people out in the middle of nowhere aren't your prime target consumers, but It'd still be a nice thought to make the expansions available online. I think you should definately sell at least the main game in stores, though.

One last thing, Sabastion: Buying different products based on quality isn't like tiered pricing; It's like playing a different game. Example: One donut is plain, and it costs less, while this other donut cost more, but is jelly-filled. However you add it up, they're different donuts. Most people wouldn't just ask the guy the guy to try and fill the plain donut with jelly and pay him extra. That's just... weird. Yeah, this is only my opinion, so please don't get offended, but I thought it was worth throwing my two cents in.

 

[Sylvado]

pfft just get a media center then download all your stuff from the inter....er wait that's illegal.../innocent whistle

I'd love to see a thread on IP rights. I call a thief, a thief.

 

[Phosphoros]

Oooh, let me ask YOU a question instead...hehe!

What is the =maximum= that you'd be willing to pay for a game? Is your threshhold $20/mo? $25/mo? $30/mo? More?

Little late to the thread here but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
$50-ish for the game (if I had too)
$15 a month. I could push it to 20 but I'm not to sure how clean I'd feel about it.

 

[Sabastian]

Well, I don't feel like quoting everyone, and I don't remember half of what's been said already, so you'll have to bare with my through my semi-coherent ramblings...

I don't agree with Sabastian, I do agree with Luciro, and I think it'd be cool to get one of those boats with the peddles and peddle around a lake for an hour or so... Wait... Yeah, that was almost the "boating" thing, but not quite... Oh, yeah, $75 for cable is ridiculous...

...Anyway, I think that actually sounds cool, Div. I'd be willing to pay a few bucks for something like that every now and then, just so long as it wasn't, like, a required thing. By that, of course, I don't mean actually required, just percieved as such. Plus, if there was the opportunity for unique items, I'd do it fairly often. I need something to make my character not just background noise for more skilled people. Or, at least, make him a catchy jingle. I understand that these items would likely only look different, but I'm fine with that. If it's unique, it doesn't really matter if it does anything or not.

The issue here, though, is with immersion. It could, understandably, be percieved in the same light as buying game money with real money. It is, after all, paying extra real money to obtain a boost, if only to your own pride. I mean, say someone has a rich character, and their friend says "Hey, I want to go to the carnival that just came into town! Come with me!" Well, their friend would be a jackass for saying it like that, but anyway... If that person was broke in real life, they'd have to decline, and, I think that could be considered immersion breaking. You guys'd have to be careful as to how you presented this, if you decided to include it. Otherwise, it could be a reason for people to choose a different game. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the idea, but I'm sure there are people out there who would. I just think that you'd be less likely to attract roleplayers with this, and more likely to attract powergamers... Hopefully I'm a fool.

Bad ideas to increase people acceptance of the idea:

1: Cut the price down to $2-3, as $5 is the first step up the price ladder. Under that, it's percieved as insignificant, above it it's percieved as a "this could add up" type of thing.

2: Give each player a token when they first start out so they can attend one of these events for free, giving them the chance at a cool item, and letting them decide if it's something they would want to repeat. If it's not, they still won't have any hard feelings, because they'll know exactly what the events are like, and, well, they've done it...

3: Have an in-game lottery where the winner gets to go on one of these events for free. It'll make it seem, I don't know, like you guys are more open with your money. Make you seem more personable.

4: Include a cheesemonger in the game. Even if it doesn't actually do a whole lot, people will love it. That, or let me have a goat at my character's house. If you do, I'll punch the first person I see who speaks ill of the events. Seriously, if I see someone in real life, I'll deck 'em... Well, unless they're a woman, then I'll just scowl. Seriously, I want a goat...

And that concludes my list of (most likely) bad ideas for making the events seem more "player-friendly." Have a safe drive home, everyone.

I said alot so I would be surprised if you disagree "across the board bar none".

I think your list has good ideas. DR has done two, does three and there are goats in DR. Not kidding at all. Also, paid quest and special merchant items are put in the rare loot que that can show up in can locked box found in DR. So people that don't pay for quest or win nifty items still have a chance of getting them. <sarcasm> Which is soooo unfair because they did not pay for the development of those nifty items. </sarcasm>

S.

 

[Maze]

As I live down under I’m not really sure of the standard price of games in USD (50-60?).

The price to purchase the game isn’t really a factor for me. Likewise with retail box vs. digital download. I wouldn’t like to see the monthly fee higher for a game simply because the game is cheaper to buy.

I’m in a mmorpg for the long run, so the purchase cost is a small fraction of what I intend to pay.

Monthly fee: $15 - $20 (USD). Max.

Ticketed events? *makes a face* ugh, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

...does anyone have some Juicy Fruit?

 

[Sabastian]

Oh, I forgot to adress something. I like buying the actual box and CD and stuff, but, since I live out in the boonies, having to buy the expansions in a store can be... problematic.

I know people out in the middle of nowhere aren't your prime target consumers, but It'd still be a nice thought to make the expansions available online. I think you should definately sell at least the main game in stores, though.

One last thing, Sabastion: Buying different products based on quality isn't like tiered pricing; It's like playing a different game. Example: One donut is plain, and it costs less, while this other donut cost more, but is jelly-filled. However you add it up, they're different donuts. Most people wouldn't just ask the guy the guy to try and fill the plain donut with jelly and pay him extra. That's just... weird. Yeah, this is only my opinion, so please don't get offended, but I thought it was worth throwing my two cents in.

Not offended at all. Discussion is healthy. I am a little confused by your example, although I think there is a good point in there. Can someone explain it a little better?

Oh, as far as box or online download. I do hope they pass the cost saving of online downloads to us, the consumers.

S.
< DOUBLE POST SEPERATOR >

I'd love to see a thread on IP rights. I call a thief, a thief.

Didn't we already do Copy Right Law? IP law would be a fun one, more so if we get all international in the discussion.



S.

 

[Morneblade]

My intent is not to insult you. The fact is, most people don't understand what it takes to run a business. Do you have a business Morneblade? I do. I know the cost of running a software company all to well.

As for your comments about established prices, well these are the types of comments that lead me to believe you don't infact have a strong grasp of business practices. I am making an educated assumption based on your post. It's kind of necessary since I don't know you. But back to pricing....

Have you ever watched cable TV? How much did it cost when it first came out? Did you know it was a flat price? Then came HBO, et al ... and the pricing structure changed. The only direction cable has gone since is, a la cart, but they arn't quite their yet. Online like games like WoW and EQ are still very new in the grand scheam of things (the internet). Your just fooling yourself if you think the pricing structure is set. Sure you can point to how people are vocally against tiered pricing. To bad they don't show it with their pocket books. See, content, happy or passive people just don't feel the need to be vocal on message forums.

I'm only vocal about it because I love a good debat and I am happy that the debates here don't turn into childish flame wars. Which again, I should restate my intent is not to insult you, however, through your post you have not demonstrated an indepth level of first hand business knowledge. And you post are all I have to go on.

It's really not a matter of, "It's possible for them to do what you say." It's more of a question of, "is it practical." Lets not forget that they have to compete with other businesses for your money. So how do they do this over the long run? The have to innovate. Innovation cost money. It cost time. If they don't continue to innovate your playing a new game in 2 years and they are left with software no one wants. Simu has kept people playing their games for what, 10 -15 years. Who else can say that? How many people still play EQ or UO on a monthly basis?

I would love to have all the bells and whistles of every product I buy, but life just doesn't work that way. It doesn't stop me from buying though. I do what we all do, I find the products and company that give me the most return (preceved value) for my dollar. This is just the way things work. Sorry if it upsets you but ....

If HJ is the game that offers the most fun people will pay. If it streaches their budgets, they will figure out a way to make it work. While some people may boycot on principal, it has been shown, the average consumer doesn't. Tiered pricining is part of our way of life. From apples, to airplanes. You want good fruit, go to Whole Foods and pay more. Want a good plane ride, buy first class. Whant HBO, pay. Hell, in my area if you want faster download speeds you have to pay for that too.

You all know this is just the world in my eyes. It's great that we can disagree and be heard. If I am wrong, well I'm wrong. But it's still fun to debate.

(pardon the spelling, it's just not in my skill sets)

S.

Wow. your intention is not to insult, but yet you throw out some serious insults. Intentional or not, your way of writing is very condesending. I actually do have my own small business, and helped run my families business for a couple years before it was sold. One that generated over $750,000 a year. I am familar with things such as payroll, insurance, property payments, utilities, phones, plummers, electricians, upgrading and maintaining, unemplyment and other cost of running a business. I'm glad you enjoy debating for the debate, I don't however and will be dropping this topic after this post.

Will MMO's eventually go the route of tiered pricing, maybe. But I would prefer it didn't, and right now there is more than enough compitition from games that offer a set price to make it a very bad move for a smal company that cannot afford to eat a large loss. As far as "enterainment" goes (and games are entertainment) you dont see tiered pricing in let's say, movies theaters (first run ones) or Amusment Parks.

 

[cordy_CinVin]

Spoiler: Here's why debating in a forum is tuff

See there is one major problem with having a debate on a forum. People can't tell what your tone of voice is or your body language your using. This intern can cause people to think that what your saying means something different than what you intend it too. On top of that no one really knows any of the people that are posting so add those two together and sometimes what you say people can interpret a different way.

With all that said please try to keep an open mind, disagreements happen and is in most cases a good thing for discussion, but remember that just because you read and interpret something as hostile doesn't mean that it is so always ask for clarification. Enjoy

I just had to use it im sorry

 

[sylveria]

Spenders come in many flavors; there are those for whom big money is no object, and there are those for whom it takes a lot of thought before they hand over that hard-earned dollar bill.

For me, personally, it's much like the difference between the person who is obsessed with buying the latest piece of hardware no matter how expensive, and the person who wants that same hardware but will have to (or wants to) wait a year until the prices fall. The prices cannot fall unless there has been an investment in mass production, therefore a product can't really become affordable for all if someone isn't willing to invest more money during the initial phase. Manufacterers know this; they plan their marketing around this strategy and their longterm business models are largely based on it.

But in reality, games have a whole different dynamic. Rather than pointing at a cool new gadget, a player is more likely to brag about having been in a beta test, or that s/he knows a few GMs. In this respect, it's exactly like show business. S/he was at the sound check, or s/he knows the band. Pricing is irrelevent because the cash outlay for their reward is miniscule compared to the benefits they reap. Yet someone had to pay for the concert tickets that allowed the show to happen in the first place, so in essense those ticket-buyers are carrying the freeloader. And of those who paid, some bought premium packages because being in the front rows was important, while others scraped together enough to sit in the last row because "just being there" was important.

Flat pricing, therefore, is a misnomer of sorts. Nothing is flat-priced. Someone is always paying to carry the upfront costs of something. Your box costs $50 because a certain number of people are projected to pay $80 for the collector's set. If it weren't for them, your box might very well cost you $65.

For those of you who remember the old Simu price structure under GEnie, you'll remember that it cost =per hour= to play Gemstone III. I think it was $12.00 prime and $3.00 off-peak. There was no flat pricing at all -- there also wasn't a UO or a DAoC or an EQ.

Since that time, games have kept to flat pricing as a way (mostly) to remain competetive in an ever-flooding market...but that doesn't necessarily mean it works for them. It merely means they're toe-to-toe with their competition in terms of price. Not quality of game or quantity of players. Just price.

So given this economic reality, do you believe a small company deserves the latitude to charge a little more for a quality, interpersonal, and immersive environment so that they can continue to build the world for you? Or do you think that price is the all-important benchmark by which a game's worth is measured, even if it stretches a small company's resources paper-thin? What about bigger companies? Does the size of the producer color your thoughts about pricing?

More poll! Sorry!

 

[cordy_CinVin]

But in reality, games have a whole different dynamic. Rather than pointing at a cool new gadget, a player is more likely to brag about having been in a beta test, or that s/he knows a few GMs. In this respect, it's exactly like show business. S/he was at the sound check, or s/he knows the band. Pricing is irrelevent because the cash outlay for their reward is miniscule compared to the benefits they reap. Yet someone had to pay for the concert tickets that allowed the show to happen in the first place, so in essense those ticket-buyers are carrying the freeloader. And of those who paid, some bought premium packages because being in the front rows was important, while others scraped together enough to sit in the last row because "just being there" was important.

You just called us all groupies...GASP....can I have your autograph??

So given this economic reality, do you believe a small company deserves the latitude to charge a little more for a quality, interpersonal, and immersive environment so that they can continue to build the world for you? Or do you think that price is the all-important benchmark by which a game's worth is measured, even if it stretches a small company's resources paper-thin? What about bigger companies? Does the size of the producer color your thoughts about pricing?

Yes I think they should be allowed to set their prices the way they want to so that they are able to make a profit and become one of those large companies. But if you make me pay the current amount that you currently charge users for a MUD, then I'm sorry but I think many of your potential customers will shy away. And by little do you mean going from a $15 a month sub. to lets say $20, $25 then I would live with it and I think the company could make money especially if the game is a hit like many of us want it to be.

More then likely I'll play it either way, but like you I want the game to do well and if they go overboard with tiered pricing, ticketed events, I'm afraid it won't and I don't think anyone wants that for Simu or HJ.

 

[Sylvado]

As far as "enterainment" goes (and games are entertainment) you dont see tiered pricing in let's say, movies theaters (first run ones) or Amusment Parks.

In my area you pay extra to see a movie in an IMAX theater. Is that any different than Simu having different servers offering different service packages? The only amusement park I go to is the only amusement park. If I pay to stay at one of the park hotels the gates open earlier than they do for those staying outside the park.

 

[Sabastian]

Originally Posted by Morneblade
As far as "enterainment" goes (and games are entertainment) you dont see tiered pricing in let's say, movies theaters (first run ones) or Amusment Parks.

In my area you pay extra to see a movie in an IMAX theater. Is that any different than Simu having different servers offering different service packages? The only amusement park I go to is the only amusement park. If I pay to stay at one of the park hotels the gates open earlier than they do for those staying outside the park.

Ticket prices: Child, Adult, Seinor. And lets not forget matin'ee. (at the movies and theatre) What about fast passes at amusement parks now? Last time I went to see the Mouse, I could pay more for a fast pass ticket that let me take a much shorter line.

S.