Politics Abortion

[AliasHombre]

So giving women the option to seek counsiling is bad huh?


And I am prety sure that people kill people.

 

[sugababyboo]

This makes me angry:
I'm firmly pro choice. I think it needs to be an option for women, and that it's really irresponsible of governments to do such things as what I've posted above.

It's easy for pro-life people to argue that consenting adults should not be having abortions - adoption is always an option for people who are not willing to / able for whatever reason to raise a child. However what can you say about a 12 year old girl being raped and consequently becoming pregnant? How can you not offer her the option of having an abortion? To go through pregnancy, childbirth and eventually motherhood at such a young age could be extremely damaging emotionally and physically, and would affect almost every area of her life. She could lose many of her friends, be forced to give up her schooling - the list goes on.

I think you'd find it hard to find someone anywhere who thought that abortion was a good thing - in that people should go around and do it like it was going out of fashion - even those of us who are 'pro choice' acknowledge that it's must be an incredibly hard thing for anyone to have to go through.

And on another note, AliasHombre, I think you're foolish to say that guns 'protect people' - they don't, they kill people. If it weren't for guns in the first place then there would be no need to use one to 'defend' yourself.

ITA and I just wanted to add this excerpt from Margaret Cho's blog. The entry was about the morning after pill but she mentions her abortion.

Look, I have had an abortion. If I were to use the most polite terms to describe my experience I would say, "It wasn't a f**king tea party." It is painful and hideous. Everyone leaves in a bad mood, which turns worse. If it could have been prevented by going to the drugstore and picking up a box of pills, then it wouldn't have ruined my sex life for several months afterwards, as I tried to heal the wounds that the surgery had left behind. I would have been able to return to work sooner. I would have been able to feel like I wasn't being punished somehow for the choices that I made for my own health and sanity.

 

[cathjs47]

So giving women the option to seek counsiling is bad huh?

You obviously didn't read the article properly - the Australian Federal Health Minister has shifted funding from counselling centres that are pro-choice to centres that are firmly pro-life. This is not a new 'donation' that the government has given to pregnancy counselling - the money has alway been there, it's just been spread more evenly.

 

[AliasHombre]

You obviously didn't read the article properly - the Australian Federal Health Minister has shifted funding from counselling centres that are pro-choice to centres that are firmly pro-life. This is not a new 'donation' that the government has given to pregnancy counselling - the money has alway been there, it's just been spread more evenly.

Yes, the government actually favors babies living than dying. Abstract concept I guess.

 

[CIAFAN]

So giving women the option to seek counsiling is bad huh?
And I am prety sure that people kill people.

Yeah Hombre--people do kill people --that is very true) but it's just soooooooo much easier when you just need to put forth the effort of a few pounds of pressure on a trigger.............

 

[AliasHombre]

Yeah Hombre--people do kill people --that is very true) but it's just soooooooo much easier when you just need to put forth the effort of a few pounds of pressure on a trigger.............

I wasn't sure it was "easy" to decide to kill a person. But then theres abortion.

 

[CIAFAN]

I wasn't sure it was "easy" to decide to kill a person. But then theres abortion.

You Know Hombre--I really think you and I could have some interesting and spirited conversations about this issue and probably some other topics but posting a few lines on important issues when you simply type in a holier than thou response is fruitless. Don't stand in judgement of women's actions or others opinions unless you have walked in their shoes.

 

[AliasHombre]

I'm am not inclined to be empathetic when the decision involves the termination of a babies life.

In fact, try standing in the babies shoes, you know, before it dies.

 

[CIAFAN]

I'm am not inclined to be empathetic when the decision involves the termination of a babies life.

In fact, try standing in the babies shoes, you know, before it dies.

Oh give me a break.

Be careful--up there on your big high horse--you might just fall off and be stuck with the rest of us reality based folks.
Think what you want. The Supreme Court of the United States says that abortion is legal. Period--end of statement. Whether you agree with it or not--it's legal. Counseling works for some. Adoption works for some. But not for everyone. I don't judge any woman who makes this painful decision. I am firmly pro-choice as well. Maybe some day we will have a better way to deal with unwanted pregnancies but there nothing yet so deal with they way things are.

 

[AliasHombre]

Do you really want to get into the Supreme court decision, which was one of the worst decisions made inthe history of the court? Not becasue of the final result, but becasue of how the 5 justices got there. Ginsberg herself said that she has no idea how any judge could have signed that decision. She's pro choice by the way.

 

[sugababyboo]

I just wanted to post this article.

Rape victim: 'Morning after' pill denied
By Carla McClain
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 10.23.2005

Although it is safe, effective and legal, emergency contraception - the "morning after" pill - can be hard to find in Tucson.

After a sexual assault one recent weekend, a young Tucson woman spent three frantic days trying to obtain the drug to prevent a pregnancy, knowing that each passing day lowered the chance the drug would work.

While calling dozens of Tucson pharmacies trying to fill a prescription for emergency contraception, she found that most did not stock the drug.

When she finally did find a pharmacy with it, she said she was told the pharmacist on duty would not dispense it because of religious and moral objections.

"I was so shocked," said the 20-year-old woman, who, as a victim of sexual assault, is not being named by the Star. "I just did not understand how they could legally refuse to do this."

But many stores are. A 2004 survey of more than 900 Arizona pharmacies found less than half keep emergency contraception drugs in stock, with most saying there is too little demand, but some cite moral reasons, according to the Arizona Family Planning Council.

Yet, family-planning agencies say they've seen a 60 percent increase in demand for the drug in recent years. The statistics are creating what advocates say is a frightening situation for some women. But others are glad pharmacists have a choice.

Women who report sexual assaults to police receive treatment, examination and the immediate offer of emergency contraception at a local emergency room, according to the policy of most Tucson hospitals.

But, like many sexual assault victims, the 20-year-old woman did not report the assault because she felt traumatized and guilty she had put herself in a situation that left her vulnerable. She was mistakenly locked outside a gathering at a friend's house and accepted the offer of a neighbor to stay at his place.

"This (sex) was with someone I did not even know and did not want to have intercourse with, and I am in no place now to have children," she said. "I just don't think this should be the pharmacist's decision."

The manager of the Fry's pharmacy at 3920 E. Grant Road, where the refusal occurred, offered to find another location where the prescription could be filled, according to a Fry's spokeswoman. But the young woman said she was offered no other options.

Although emergency contraception drugs have been around in one form or another for more than two decades, they remain highly controversial, with anti-abortionists and religious conservatives saying they can abort a fertilized egg.

To be taken within three to five days of unprotected intercourse, emergency contraception - also known as "Plan B" - prevents pregnancy by stopping ovulation, fertilization or implantation of a fertilized egg. The sooner the emergency contraception is taken after intercourse, the more effective it is.

More widespread use of emergency contraception could prevent as many as 800,000 surgical abortions a year, according to family-planning groups such as Planned Parenthood.

Controversy over emergency contraception is roiling now at the national level, with FDA scientists resigning over the agency's refusal to allow emergency contraception to be sold over the counter, without a prescription.

The issue surfaced in Arizona last winter, when Gov. Janet Napolitano vetoed a bill that would have permitted pharmacists to refuse to dispense it on moral or religious grounds.

But her veto was essentially meaningless, as most of the drugstore chains that dominate Tucson already allow that as a matter of corporate policy. Most also require that the customer be immediately referred to another pharmacist or drugstore willing to fill the prescription.

"The idea is, if our pharmacist won't dispense it, the patient will know where to go to get it," said Michael Polzin, a national Walgreens spokesman.

That same policy is in effect at all Fry's Food Store pharmacies, said Fry's spokeswoman Kendra Doyel.

On the night three weeks ago when an on-duty Fry's pharmacist refused to fill the emergency contraception prescription, the pharmacy manager offered to find another pharmacy that would, according to Doyel.

"He felt he was making every attempt to help her get what she needed. A pharmacist would never just say 'you're out of luck,' " said Doyel, who would not allow any of the Fry's employees involved in the incident to be interviewed.

But a friend with the sexual assault victim that night strongly disputed that account.

"He (the manager) said he would fill it himself if we could get there before his shift ended, within 10 minutes," said Sabrina Fladness, a University of Arizona student and owner of a computer service business.

"But we were more than 10 minutes away, so that was impossible. So he said we would have to come back the next morning" - after the shift of the refusing pharmacist ended.

"He made no provision for getting it that night," she said.

The two also attempted to obtain the drug at a Planned Parenthood clinic, but could not afford the $70 cost and apparently were not informed that Planned Parenthood will work out payment on a sliding scale fee.

"We have all kinds of compassion for a rape victim - in that case, Plan B is OK, the church has no problem with it," said Ron Johnson, with the Arizona Catholic Conference, which supports the right of any health-care worker to refuse to dispense emergency contraception and lobbied hard for passage of the Arizona law to allow it.

But the biggest roadblock to obtaining emergency contraception was that most pharmacies simply do not stock it, Fladness said. She said she called nearly 50, before finding two that had it and agreed to dispense it.

The Fry's spokeswoman could not immediately say how many of its stores had emergency contraception in stock. Polzin, the national Walgreens spokesman, said only one of the 50 Walgreens in the Tucson area did not have the drug on the shelves last week.

But that somewhat contradicts the formal Arizona Family Planning Council survey that found only 43 percent of Arizona pharmacies keep it in stock, with most that don't - nearly 60 percent - citing lack of demand as the reason. Another 10 percent cited moral reasons.

At the same time, officials at Planned Parenthood say they have seen a dramatic rise in demand for emergency contraception in recent years - filling more than 5,000 prescriptions for it this year, compared with 3,000 last year.

 

[CIAFAN]

I just wanted to post this article.

Hey Sugababyboo--thanks for the kind words. I saw a similar article in the Washington Post--very frightening that people can take their personal beliefs to work with them and get away with it. Kinda takes you back to a very bad time in this nation's history where someone could be refused medical help due to the color of their skin. We always talk about the separation of church and state--well we need a separation of church and business as well.

Hey Hombre--blah blah blah.

 

[AliasHombre]

Yeah...never said I was against contraception.

 

[Kewii]

Hey Hombre--blah blah blah.

Let's try to keep discussion a little bit more mature than this. Everyone is welcome to their opinion and can argue their belief, but please be respectful and courteous.

 

[whostolemyrubberband]

Hey Sugababyboo--thanks for the kind words. I saw a similar article in the Washington Post--very frightening that people can take their personal beliefs to work with them and get away with it. Kinda takes you back to a very bad time in this nation's history where someone could be refused medical help due to the color of their skin. We always talk about the separation of church and state--well we need a separation of church and business as well.

Hey Hombre--blah blah blah.

LETTER TO EVERYONE WHO READ THE ARTICLE THIS PERSON IS TALKING ABOUT:

not all people with morals and religious values are like this. please do not judge all that do have them on one single imbecile who does not know how to apply logic AND emotion to a life-changing situation. I am sure you all are capable of figuring that out on your own, but I felt obliged to stand up for what I think.

 

[CIAFAN]

Let's try to keep discussion a little bit more mature than this. Everyone is welcome to their opinion and can argue their belief, but please be respectful and courteous.

My Bad--long day I guess.

 

[mystery_chick]

Yeah...never said I was against contraception.

ummm are you against the morning after pills? because that's what the emergency contraceptives are.

--mandy

 

[freelancer_mini_101]

OH MY GOSH. Who freaking cares about the woman's choice? We're talking about a baby. YOU were once a fetus. Does anyone actually know what happens ina abortion? The baby gets pulled out of the mother's womb with tongs and thrown into the garbage. I think its sick. These days women are losing so much responsibility. If you want to have sex then be responsible enough to be prepared for the the potential baby. QUICK FACT: The woman who actually started abortion, is now a PROLIFE woman!!! That should say something. The world has become so conceited.

ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY PROLIFE!!!

 

[Jamison]

OH MY GOSH. Who freaking cares about the woman's choice? We're talking about a baby. YOU were once a fetus. Does anyone actually know what happens ina abortion? The baby gets pulled out of the mother's womb with tongs and thrown into the garbage. I think its sick. These days women are losing so much responsibility. If you want to have sex then be responsible enough to be prepared for the the potential baby. QUICK FACT: The woman who actually started abortion, is now a PROLIFE woman!!! That should say something. The world has become so conceited.

ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY PROLIFE!!!

Oh goodness. Who cares about the woman's choice? I'm not sure whether you are male or female, but I'm sorry, women deserve to have a say in what happens to them. Or would you rather their husbands be in charge of them?

Your view of how an abortion is performed is slightly skewed. The vast majority of abortions are not performed in the method you outlined. Most abortions these days occur with the women just taking a series of pills, releasing hormones that cause her body to abort the fetus...the same way a natural abortion/miscarriage would occur. Since the ban on partial birth abortions you don't see most of abortions performed as surgical procedures.

Plus your interpretation of the abortion is obviously biased. Your use of emotive language and using the phrase "thrown in the garbage" proves this. Yes, the fetus, in most cases, is discarded, but not in the way you describe.

I agree that people who have sex need to be responsible, that's why you'll find that over half of women who get abortions were on some method of birth control. Birth control is not 100% effective. Obviously these women wanted to protect themselves, but it sadly failed. I don't think they should be penalized when they were doing what they could to be safe.

The woman who started abortion is now prolife? Abortions have been performed in some form or another for hundreds of years. How do we know who exactly started them and whether or not they are prolife?

And if you are absolutely and completely pro-life then I guess that means that you are against abortions in the case of rape or incest. I, personally, don't understand how someone could possibly be against abortions in those conditions...and maybe that's because it is in issue that hits home with me. But I could never ask a women who has been violated in such a way to carry an unwanted baby to term.

 

[CIAFAN]

OH MY GOSH. Who freaking cares about the woman's choice? We're talking about a baby.

Oh my Gosh. How can you be so insensitive to the plight of a woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy? And yes...we are talking about a baby....a baby is a huuuuge responsibility that needs much love, much time and much money to care for properly. Consider for a moment the plight of the millions of unwanted children, not only in this country but all over the world. Abused, neglected--frequently killed. Think of all the pregnant women who are murdered by a man who doesn't want the child. Think of the rape victims. And maybe you should rethink not caring about what a woman does with her body. Everyone has to do what is right for them and they have to live with that decision.