Politics Do you believe in god?

[nancee]

I know im going to throw a spanner in the works and this is slightly off topic but Christmas is not the birth of Jesus, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, at the time of Jesus's birth shepards with their sheep were roaming the country. Now, how could they do that if it is winter in the Northern Hemisphere in December. Secondly, when Jesus died on the cross in April (at Easter, which i dont dispute) he was 33 and a half so therefore based on this he would have to have been born around September/October at the end of Autumn.
Sorry i digressed, but i had to comment

[post="1414767"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

No, you are right. Dec. 25 is not the real date of His birth, I know that. But that day was dubbed as his birthday (I'm not sure by who, but I know I read it somewhere). The point I wanted to make was we do use that day to celebrate His birth; that is why it is called CHRISTmas isn't it? But companies also use that day to initiate sales and what not. It all just seems to comercialized to me.

 

[noggi16]

The thing is, God isn't absolute truth. God might be absolute truth to you, but not to me and things can't be absolute truth unless it's common in/to every human being in the world and even then it's not "absolute truth"

Of course something can be an absolute truth despite not being believed by everybody. And I would argue more people believe in A God than don't believe in a god. There are a billion Catholics in the world, then you have all the other Christian denominations, two billion Muslims, 800 million Hindus so doesn't that make it an absolute truth?

Also I would argue that not everyone has to believe in something for it to be an absolute, a lot of people in the world find female genital mutilation acceptable, does that make it ok?

 

[m<o>j]

Instead of the fact that an ominipent and almighty being decided it would be that way?

[post="1412578"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Of course. Think about it this way. Say you bought a flat pack kit from Ikea.
Would you be more suprised and amazed if:
a)(Okay, this depends on your ability to put stuff together, but bear with me) You built the cabinet.
b) A wind ripped through your house, and by pure chance, pushed all the wood and screws etc up against each other, resulting in the perfectly formed cabinet.

Personally, I'd be stunned by the second.

The first had a single, traceable cause. It's also easier to believe.

The second occured by pure chance...had anything be completely different, it wouldn't have happenend, meaning it is unique and special.

Now consider you were invisible. No-one had any proof you existed, apart from a book saying you did.

Someone is shown a cabinet, and told it was either created by winds that whipped it into place, improbable, but not impossible, or that it was created by a person outlined in a book, also not 100% impossible, but without any evidence, pretty much unbelievable...

The first should not be blindly followed. But suppose the wind left signs, evidence it had been there? Suppose tests were carried out, and one time out of a million, test winds created a cabinet? It seems all the more likely that it occurred, and it can be tested further and further. Years after the cabinet appeared, more proof is coming about that winds may have caused it. Yet there is still little more than the book to suggest that this mystery person created it.

Well, it makes sense to me.

Jai

 

[nancee]

apart from a book saying you did.

[post="1415402"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

The bible is not a reference book in which we can say "There is a God because the bible says so." There are many factors of why we Christians believe in God, and I don't think "cuz it's in the bible" is one of them. So...that kinda leaves a mark in your argument.

And as for your argument, do YOU really think a gust of wind can really put a cabinet together? You are unwilling to believe that a person can put it together, yet you believe that wind can? Honestly.

 

[m<o>j]

Okay, so it made sense in my head. I'm saying there is a minute chance that a wind could put a cabinet together. Of course a person could. But a person exists. You can see it, touch it. The peson was part of a different argument, that something created by chance is more beautiful a concept than something made with a purpose in mind.

Then, I used a similar(although I admit this was confusing and I should have separated the two) analogy to go on to explain why I don't believe in god. I'm saying that it is far simpler to imagine that an invisble person created the cabinet *People throw tomatoes, screaming 'Would she shut up about the cabinets already?'* with a purpose, although it was highly unlikely that a wind could put together a cabinet, of all the combinations that wood could be gust about the place, mathematically, it's not entirely impossible. On the other hand, I can't see or understand a 'God'.

More basically, what I'm saying is when confronted with two explanations of how something came about, I am more likely to trust that with evidence.

I'm also not saying that the Bible/other book is the only basis for a religion, but it is the main symbol for ubringing, attending church...without it it would be highly disorganised and would not, by definition be a religion.(Well perhaps it would, although I've read descriptions which say a religion must have texts of some sort...how true this is I don't know.) So really it's that there is nothing that can be recreated as proof if you like; scientists can demonstrate, say, evolution with selective breeding, giving me something to see or touch. I don't find anything like that within religion or the belief of god. I don't think we can know 100% whether this world was created by a god or by pure chance, but I have no proof whatsoever for the former. For me, believing in God would be purely blind faith, which I am absolutely uncomfortable with.

 

[Jamison]

Of course something can be an absolute truth despite not being believed by everybody. And I would argue more people believe in A God than don't believe in a god. There are a billion Catholics in the world, then you have all the other Christian denominations, two billion Muslims, 800 million Hindus so doesn't that make it an absolute truth?

Also I would argue that not everyone has to believe in something for it to be an absolute, a lot of people in the world find female genital mutilation acceptable, does that make it ok?

[post="1415375"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

And having a bunch of people believe in something doesn't make it an absolute truth either.

As you said, many people believe female genital mutilation is acceptable, yet that doesn't make it ok.

Just because the majority of the world believes in some form of God, it doesn't make them correct.

 

[acting_chica]

For me, believing in God would be purely blind faith, which I am absolutely uncomfortable with.

me too me too!

i do believe there is something connecting us, but i feel that it is good. there is a good part to everyone, no matter how evil they seem or their actions are. there is always a part of someone that is good, and i think that's what connects us more than any supreme being.

i think that there could be a god, but i don't worry about it. what i do worry about is what i am going to do with the time i have on earth. i worry that i will not affect it, that i will not make a change. that's what my goal in life is, to touch something or someone. to do something that will make me remembered, happily. i don't care if there is a heaven or hell or to which i go; i care about my friends, my family, the people i love and the things i love. that's what i spend my time on. i don't spend it worrying with or thinking about a god who might or might not exist, who might or might not judge me for my actions.

m-c

 

[mystery_chick]

Of course something can be an absolute truth despite not being believed by everybody. And I would argue more people believe in A God than don't believe in a god. There are a billion Catholics in the world, then you have all the other Christian denominations, two billion Muslims, 800 million Hindus so doesn't that make it an absolute truth?

Also I would argue that not everyone has to believe in something for it to be an absolute, a lot of people in the world find female genital mutilation acceptable, does that make it ok?

[post="1415375"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Just because a lot of people believe in God doesn't make God an absolute truth. All the little kids in the world believe in Santa Clause, but that doesn't make Santa Clause real.

and uhhh no. If a lot of people find femal genital mutilation acceptable, it's still not okay. Just like if all of my friends decided to jump off a bridge, doesn't mean that jumping off a bridge with them is the right decision to make. :eyebrow:
--mandy

 

[sugababyboo]

Just because a lot of people believe in God doesn't make God an absolute truth. All the little kids in the world believe in Santa Clause, but that doesn't make Santa Clause real.

and uhhh no. If a lot of people find femal genital mutilation acceptable, it's still not okay. Just like if all of my friends decided to jump off a bridge, doesn't mean that jumping off a bridge with them is the right decision to make. :eyebrow:
--mandy

[post="1415784"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

And let's not forget that a lot of people believed that the world was flat and we know that it isn't true.

 

[pii_lena4ever]

And let's not forget that a lot of people believed that the world was flat and we know that it isn't true.

[post="1415795"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

yeah, but that's stuff that can be proved right/wrong, as it (in this case the earth) is a physical object, something you can touch with your hand, see with your eyes and so on. which is more than you can say about God. true, a lot of people believed that the earth was flat, and then they were proved wrong. but when it comes to religion, believing in a God, or many gods, you can't prove people right or wrong. and no, you can't say that it's the absolute truth. see that's when it comes to faith.

 

[sugababyboo]

yeah, but that's stuff that can be proved right/wrong, as it (in this case the earth) is a physical object, something you can touch with your hand, see with your eyes and so on. which is more than you can say about God. true, a lot of people believed that the earth was flat, and then they were proved wrong. but when it comes to religion, believing in a God, or many gods, you can't prove people right or wrong. and no, you can't say that it's the absolute truth. see that's when it comes to faith. 

[post="1418931"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Yes, and as many others have said before some people cannot have faith without evidence. There are still some people who believe that the world is still flat lol :lol:

 

[tolkien]

I don't know if God exist. Maybe yes, maybe no. I need proofs.
So right now, no, I don't believe in God.
But I've been baptized, so I'm a Catholic and I should believe in God.
Complicated, isn't?

 

[Scorpio_dj]

I don't know if there is a God or not. I'm not really a believer, but I'm not an athiest either (did I spell that right?) I quess I don't really need to know, not now. I try to keep an open mind.

 

[sugababyboo]

Here's an article from abc news

Non-Religious Kids Find Refuge in 'Godless' Camp
'Godless' Camp Take Religion Out of Everyday Life

Jul. 25, 2005 - Nicole Ward grew tired of having to pray during the hot activity-filled days of her summer camp experience; especially since she comes from a family that doesn't believe in God.

"I really didn't enjoy having to say a million prayers a day at other camps," said Ward.

Thanks to Camp Quest, she no longer has to.

Camp Quest is a secular camp operated in Butler County, Ohio, by a group incorporated in Kentucky. It is for kids who come from families who are atheist or agnostic. For these kids, Camp Quest provides a refuge from a society where God feels omnipresent.

"I sometimes get pressured at my school, like why do I not believe in God?" said Molly Silverman, a camper. "But here, they never pressure me or anything

Instead, Silverman is accepted without criticism for not bowing her head before each meal.

A Godless Curriculum
Lawyer and author Edwin Kagin, an atheist, founded the camp 10 years ago, and chooses to focus on subjects that steer clear of religion.

"We also have critical thinking," said Kagin. "We teach science. We teach evolution. We have a strong emphasis on scientific method."

Kagin also refers back to American history to nurture his Godless environment.

Each camper is given a Godless one-dollar bill, without the phrase "In God We Trust" printed on the back, because the "God" one-dollar bills didn't emerge until the 1950s.

American Atheists and Agnostics
An estimated 6 million Americans are atheists or agnostics who either do not believe in God or question the existence of God.

Hostility toward atheists and agnostics in the United States prompts some non-religious people to refer to their admission of Godlessness as "coming out of the closet." Polls have shown Americans would choose a president who is gay, female or Muslim over a non-God-fearing person.

"Americans tend to view religious faith as the basis for morality, so when someone says they don't have a religious faith or they're an atheist, to many people that's admitting they don't have a moral values," said John Green of The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

Kagin's Camp Quest is a response to the current debate over the role of religion in public life.

Phil Burress of the Citizens for Community Values said Kagin's camp sends the wrong message.

"What offends me more about this camp is the fact that they're teaching the myth of separation between church and state," said Burress.

Kagin says his campers are perfectly normal, that instead the problem lies with other peoples' religious tunnel vision.

"There's nothing wrong with the children of Camp Quest, the problem is the bigotry of people who do not understand or are afraid that they threaten them because of their very existence," said Kagin.

Copyright © 2005 ABC News Internet Ventures

 

[the_alliance]

The bible is not a reference book in which we can say "There is a God because the bible says so." There are many factors of why we Christians believe in God, and I don't think "cuz it's in the bible" is one of them. So...that kinda leaves a mark in your argument.

And as for your argument, do YOU really think a gust of wind can really put a cabinet together? You are unwilling to believe that a person can put it together, yet you believe that wind can? Honestly.

[post="1415537"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

techinically, the Bible is an anthology. it's not a single book. Nancee, you must be Catholic or else a very intellegent Protestant.

i'm sure i've posted this somewhere, but the Catholic Church believes that evolution/creation happened through God.

And having a bunch of people believe in something doesn't make it an absolute truth either.

As you said, many people believe female genital mutilation is acceptable, yet that doesn't make it ok.

Just because the majority of the world believes in some form of God, it doesn't make them correct.

[post="1415688"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Just because the majority of the votes showed that Americans thought that Bush would be the better president doesn't make them correct.

whoever only believes that God exists cuz a bunch of people do too ought to reconisder their faith. question it. pray about it. there are other better reasons to believe.

i honestly dont see what the big debate is. if people dont want to believe, it's their loss. God is not "Debate". God is "Love". As long as we love one another, God exists among us. that's why i have problems with El Presidente (Senor Bush). if he claims that God told him to invade and occupy Iraq, how can the Almighty contradict himself? is war, violence, and hatred part of Jesus' teachings of loving your neighbor? ok, going off topic...

 

[Kewii]

techinically, the Bible is an anthology. it's not a single book. Nancee, you must be Catholic or else a very intellegent Protestant.

[post="1430525"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Statements like the above are border line flaming and thus are against AA rules. Implying that most Protestants are not intelligent is unfair and disrespectful.

Please choose you're words more carefully next time.

 

[jacs29]

"What offends me more about this camp is the fact that they're teaching the myth of separation between church and state," said Burress.

:beret: oi...

 

[Phoenixwannabe]

I have only read a couple of the pages, but it seems to me that you guy's are discussing some pretty serious stuff. Would it be okay for me to ask a question?

 

[the_alliance]

I have only read a couple of the pages, but it seems to me that you guy's are discussing some pretty serious stuff. Would it be okay for me to ask a question?

[post="1434179"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

you just did. jk. yeah, you can ask. you dont need to ask if you can ask a question. just ask it, if it's not appropriate, the mods will remove the post. it's america, freedom of speech, right?

 

[Scarlet Crystal]

Calmness is the key word here. Kewii is cool. But she will be Bad Coppette if she has to.