the_alliance
Cadet
i love BBC. it's great to get news from an unbiased (well, less biased) source.
AliasHombre
Cadet
this is a good idea, the word needs to be spread about how pourus the borders are
Jamison
Cadet
noggi16 said:
What does it matter?!
It matters for many many reasons. These immigrants don't have insurance, and when they go to the hospital it's American citizens tax dollars that are going to have them treated.
They take away jobs from Americans, companies (such as Wal-Mart for instance) hire illegal immigrants (knowing full well they're illegal) because they can pay them less than minimum wage. This takes away jobs from American workers who'd have to be paid minimum wage.
They're able to come into this country without any sort of background check...and could potentially be dangerous or terrorists.
Trust me, I am most certainly not against people immigrating to this country. I think it's wonderful that we can offer so many people so many wonderful oppertunities. But I do think that they should go through the proper channels and enter legally.
And if the situation were reversed and you had thousand upon thousands of illegal immigrants immigrating to your country each year and you were feeling the consequences...then you'd feel the same way I do.
Here are some statistics as to how much having illegal immigrants in America costs us (all figures are for 2002):
*The average illegal alien household uses $2,700 a year in services (which are paid in taxes by the American citizen)
Amount of money used to assist illegal aliens (broken down by department):
-Medicaid: 2.5 billion
-Treatment for uninsured: 2.2 billion
-Food assitance program: 1.9 billion
-Federal prison and court system: 1.6 billion
-Federal aid to schools: 1.4 billion
-Total for 2002: 9.6 billion
And this was a study done by CIS.
It's also interesting to note that the money the immigrants earn isn't going back into our economy (or most of it at least). 18 billion dollars a year goes back to relatives in Mexico. And this accounts for the second largest source of income to Mexico.
Maybe now, you'll have a better understanding why illegal immigration, isn't really a good thing.
AliasHombre
Cadet
They aren't running it. The can't legally do anything but inform border patrol of illegals.Jamison said:
AliasHombre
Cadet
Its not mexicans that worry me as much as Arabs.
Jamison
Cadet
AliasHombre said:
There have been vigilantes protrolling the border for years. They have caused abuse and even death in some cases.
The only difference now is that the government has decided to support them, because they can't stop them.
I completely agree more needs to be done with our borders, but I don't think vigilantes are the answer.
And I'm honestly not worried about someone immigrating from Mexico attacking us (though it's a possibility). But you could have an Arab terrorist (or any terrorist for that matter) enter into Mexico and then into the US through our very open borders. It does concern me about the amount of US tax dollars that are going to support these illegal immigrants.
I think we need to have tighter borders and immigration laws...minus the vigilantes.
Well before you start to pontificate maybe you should realise that I live in Britain and apparantly we have the loosest asylum laws in Europe. Allegedly we have lots of immigrants. (Although thats the daily mail talking.) Where I live we have approximatly 30% Bangledeshi minorty with many first and second generation immigrants.
So there are no Americans without insurance that don't pay tax? Its all the evil immigrants?
Of those immigrants who arrived in the U.S. after 1980 and were not refugees, only 2.8% receive public assistance. That compares to 4.2% for the U.S.-born population.
From Mexico? Do you backround check every person who comes into America? What about the people you have preferential tourist agreements with? Like Britain where we have a substantial British Muslim population.
Thats not true. People high immigrants because the native population don't want to do those jobs. Thats why we need high immigration in Britain if 50% of our population want to go to university, they don't want to drive buses or clean hospitals. And what about all the immigrants that can't get jobs. This is a generalisation but there are pleanty of employers here that won't employ people of an ethnic minority never mind an immigrant.
Again no chance some of this money went to help Americans that don't pay tax?
Thats economically impossible if what you said is true. Just because they send money home. The money Wal-Mart saves goes somewhere so it does go back into the economy in savings in people who shop at Wal-Mart.
And you have one of the lowest tax burden economies in the world. Why do you think petrols so cheap.
This kind of attitude is the kind of attitude, that isolates immgrants. Most illegal immigrants don't leave charmed lives, the live under threat of deportation or arrest, they live in poor conditions probably with the threat of summary dismissal, they are poorly paid, they are not protected by the same employment laws as the rest of the population. Their no threat. America would not be the country it is today without immigration. The amount that immigrants over the ages have added to America is immesurable.
Just like Britain would not be the multi-cultural society it is today without immigration.
I'm proud that (some) of my country is so welcomming to immigrants. And as corny as it sounds, they don't have two heads and eat babies. They're just people. They just happen to come from Mexico and speak spanish. Why does it bother you so much that people want to try to improve themselves and feel they can do that better in America?
There is a quote out of childrens book called the Railway Children which always makes me realise how lucky I am to live in Britain.
(shes talking to her dad)
"I'm so glad people can come here when they have no where else to go."
Jamison
Cadet
I know they're people, and like I said I have no issue with them wanting to come to America. But I do think they should have to go through the proper channels, just like everyone before them. I think we should welcome immigrants.
Those stastics I gave from the CIS, were just the numbers dealing with the money spent giving services to illegal immigrants...not our own citizens.
And yes, we do have citizens who don't have insurance (and trust me, I have major issues with that). But that doesn't take away from the billions of dollars we're spending on people who are in this country illegally.
And they do take away jobs from Americans. Of course some of the jobs they do an American might not want to do. But in other cases, especially with the unemployment rate as high as it is, an American citizen would take any job they could get.
And actually our gas prices are going up rapidly. I know the prices are cheaper than other places in the world, but they're some of the highest that they've ever been in this country.
I don't know if you really understand what I'm saying. I definitely support immigration. I have numerous friends whose families have immigrated here from various countries all over the world. I just have a problem with illegal immigration. Where are we going to draw the line? So we open up the border with Mexico and just let them come in illegally, should we do that to all of our borders? If someone from Pakistan (or any other country) wants to come into the country, should they be allowed to enter illegally?
There comes a point where you have to draw a line. If these people really want to live in America, I don't see why they wouldn't do what they can to become a citizen.
Even more reason why they should come in legally. They'd be eligible for for more governmental assistance, and they would be protected by employment laws and wouldn't have to fear getting deported.
Those stastics I gave from the CIS, were just the numbers dealing with the money spent giving services to illegal immigrants...not our own citizens.
And yes, we do have citizens who don't have insurance (and trust me, I have major issues with that). But that doesn't take away from the billions of dollars we're spending on people who are in this country illegally.
And they do take away jobs from Americans. Of course some of the jobs they do an American might not want to do. But in other cases, especially with the unemployment rate as high as it is, an American citizen would take any job they could get.
And actually our gas prices are going up rapidly. I know the prices are cheaper than other places in the world, but they're some of the highest that they've ever been in this country.
I don't know if you really understand what I'm saying. I definitely support immigration. I have numerous friends whose families have immigrated here from various countries all over the world. I just have a problem with illegal immigration. Where are we going to draw the line? So we open up the border with Mexico and just let them come in illegally, should we do that to all of our borders? If someone from Pakistan (or any other country) wants to come into the country, should they be allowed to enter illegally?
There comes a point where you have to draw a line. If these people really want to live in America, I don't see why they wouldn't do what they can to become a citizen.
Even more reason why they should come in legally. They'd be eligible for for more governmental assistance, and they would be protected by employment laws and wouldn't have to fear getting deported.
Maybe because your immigration laws are so prohibitive. Its not as easy as saying "let me in" because the chances are they'll say no.
There are some jobs, not matter what the unemployment that people won't take. If you've lost your middle management job you are not going to become a bus driver just because its a job.
fftopic: The day you pay 69% of the price per litre as tax, then you'll know high petrol
I don't believe this is all about illegal immigration. Say anyone who lived in America 3 months became a citizen, or just paid tax you'd be happy to see them all stay.
Its the law thats wrong not the people.
AliasHombre
Cadet
I believe that 54% of what we pay for gas is taxes now.
Every stat on immigrants is innacurate, becasue there are millions of undocumented illegals that cross every year. Quadruple all of the figures for a more accurate number.
This issue will split the GOP in coming years. There are those who fear the possibilities of a security breech from the borders, and there are those who welcome the cheap labor to keep their buisnesses open or profitable.
Instead of allowing all of these quasi-refugees from Mexico and other nations with corrupt governments perhaps we have a responsibility to preesure these governements to change their ways.
Every stat on immigrants is innacurate, becasue there are millions of undocumented illegals that cross every year. Quadruple all of the figures for a more accurate number.
This issue will split the GOP in coming years. There are those who fear the possibilities of a security breech from the borders, and there are those who welcome the cheap labor to keep their buisnesses open or profitable.
Instead of allowing all of these quasi-refugees from Mexico and other nations with corrupt governments perhaps we have a responsibility to preesure these governements to change their ways.
And its what $2 a gallon? which is about £1.70 ish. Ours is 85 (a bit since I've been but) a litre.
How is Mexico's government changing going to help. What needs to happen is fairer trading terms. Now I'm all for the market but the situation cannot continue. Maybe if trade were fairer, there wouldn't be a problem with immigration.
How is Mexico's government changing going to help. What needs to happen is fairer trading terms. Now I'm all for the market but the situation cannot continue. Maybe if trade were fairer, there wouldn't be a problem with immigration.
ms.katejones
Cadet
So the border patrol is actually making arrests. I'm not sure how to feel about this.
ms.katejones
Cadet
Jamison said:
I'm so glad I'm not driving anymore. Gas prices are crazy. I remember when it was like a dollar a gallon.
As for those vigilante people, what if one of them is psycho and uses the group as an excuse to shoot people? I just don't think normal citizens should walk around with guns, even if it is to protect our border. We have trained professionals to do that and if people are that worried about illegal immigrants they should vote for higher taxes to hire more guards.
AliasHombre
Cadet
Remember, we do have our own means of oil production here. Anyway, if Mexico's government cleans it up, there would not be so many people trying to get out. You don't see Americans flooding the border to Canada.
AliasHombre
Cadet
They are not making arrests themselves.ms.katejones said:
