Politics Abortion

Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Location
United States
SydneyFan said:
know someone who cries themselves to sleep almost every night because their mother didn't want them. Her mother got pregnant when she was still in her teens. Her mother was going to go to college or at least was planning to until she got pregnant. The girl I know, Ashley, her mother doesn't love her and Ashley knows it too. We're not friends but I know that Ashely is seriously depressed. She's in 9th grade. She is supposed to be in 12th. She's 17.. Normal 9th graders are 14. That's how many times she's failed. Her father drinks too much, he smokes, is abusive, and is almost never home. Her mother and father don't even live together. They didn't divorce though, because they were never marrried. Ashley comes to school everyday and she smells of smoke. I think she drinks but I'm not sure. Let me just say this though: she hates her life. She wants to die. She wishes she was never born. She has no clothes, no supplies for school, she's extremly over weight. Her life is a living hell and she wouldn't be here today if her mother got an abortion. I don't know why her mother couldn't get an abortion but her mother regrets having Ashely. I know Ashley must feel guilty about being alive herself because her life was truly a mistake. I'm surprised she hasn't killed herself yet.
If you wanted to be a good friend and cared about your friend ashley you would call child protective services (CPS) and county mental health and get her some help. It's free and it's there just for people like your friend Ashley. They exist just for those situations and know just what to do to help your friend.
People have told her to get help but she doesn't listen. And no, I don't think it would have been better if she wasn't born, but then again, she wouldn't have to be put through such suffering.
 

xdancer

Cadet
Joined
May 2, 2003
Location
North Carolina
SydneyFan said:
Betha, that's really sad about Ashley, but can you honestly say it would be better if she were never born? i'm most certainly pro-choice (not pro-abortion, pro-choice. there's a difference) but i abhor using this argument.
If you're using abortion for this arguement now, as a valid option, then suicide would have to be just as valid. If her life could have been ended back then, why not now?
uh,,,are you talking to me. i just said i hate using this argument. i don't agree with it.
 

xdancer

Cadet
Joined
May 2, 2003
Location
North Carolina
Betha Bristow said:
People have told her to get help but she doesn't listen. And no, I don't think it would have been better if she wasn't born, but then again, she wouldn't have to be put through such suffering.
everyone suffers some in their life. it's unavoidable.
 

SydneyFan

Cadet
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
People have told her to get help but she doesn't listen. And no, I don't think it would have been better if she wasn't born, but then again, she wouldn't have to be put through such suffering.
That's a seriously hard place to be. I don't know if there is a correct answer or solution to that problem. Especially since she doesn't want help. Unless you could encite her in some way which is probably impossible.
 
M

mystery_chick

Guest
SydneyFan said:
Well I guess you can live with the fact that your mother never wanted you in the first place. But you know what, a three year old kid will wonder why his or her mommy doesnt' love them. Why they never get a kiss good night or a hug every morning. When you're that young and your mother isn't there to take care of you and you have no idea who your father is, you're all alone in the world. and then what are you going to do?!
Ok I get it now , we kill the babies because the mothers don't love them and the government does have enough money(so you still think) and it's better to be dead than go with out a good night kiss. And oh yeah I forgot we should kill the babies because they might grow up to be murders and drug addicts. Hey , why not get to the root of the problem and just sterilize all of the minorities. There are your statistics. We know their mothers don't love them and they all grow up to be on drugs and in gangs and on welfare and murderers. Skip the abortions and just sterilize all minorities. Black brown and yellow. Just leave good old white people. The back bone of America who all love all their babies. That's who only grows up to be president anyway right? whitepeople . That's what the statistics show anyway. That should free things up for you nicely. Then everyone can be happy. Even you. Cause their will still be a white baby to kill now and then. You have to remember that a happy childhood isn't everything. There is still plenty of life to live after your an adult and anybody can overcome a tough childhood. Being given the opportunity is often the hard part. And don't we like to call this the land of opportunity?

and here's your lack of experience again. you think that gangs come from lack of money? Every gang in LA comes from a family that has enough money to feed and cloth itself and buy the necessary items required to live in LA if they want it. The gangs come from being young and wild and impoverished in relation to the rest of society and then beaten on by everyone around you. That's what creates gangs. and a little greed. The money for schools is never their because in reality the schools are good enough the way they are. now your going to whine, but most people don't benefit one way or the other if they have a new text book or not and your government knows this. Good students are going to learn with the materials they have. It's always been that way. Students will almost always get what they "need", not what they want. Although in california the schools have really improved the last 10 years and are like Castles or big estates now. You can't believe everything you hear on the news which it sounds like you're obviously too young to know that yet as I can see you still like to sensationalize everything. Well it's wasted on me.
huh, that's sounds so cynical. You make it sound like some helpless 16 year old sound like a big evil murderer. And I still dont' know how you can think the government can spend billions of dollars on health care, public service, education and over 250 billion on military they would still have money to help the half a million would-be-born kids. And you know what sometimes it is better to be dead. Why do you think people commit suicide? Some people may be depressed because of health reasons but others are from physcological reasons.

I was clearly not the one who brought up all the racial issues. I have said NOTHING about minorities. Guess what, I"m a miniority myself. How does sterilizing miniorities prove my statics at all?!

Happy childhood isn't everything? No, it's not, but how many really get out of the loop that they were thrown for when they were only 2 or 3? If you're depressed, you wouldnt' suddenly be all happy again in two seconds! Opportunity are only for those who has a chance. If you dont' know anything in this 'land' you dont' get your opportunity. No one will offer it to you.

Gangs do not come from lack of money. Gangs comes from lack of care, and love from people around the gangsters. If they had true friends and a great family then there would be no opportunity for them to form gangs. It was a complete seperate point I was making, and it had nothing to do with lack of money in the family but the lack of money the government is putting into the educational system thus not teaching young kids that they have better things to do with life. Like you said, gangs come from being young and wild and poor. If everyone gets aid, then where did these poor people come from? Also you just said yourself that gangs are formed by the rich people. You know what in California they may be good enough what about the rest of the country? Most people dont' benefit from new text books? well maybe they would benefit from having a text book at all. Guess what, my school lacks text books, we try to get as much money we can but we still cant' get enough for everyone! Good students learn from what they have. Great students learn from what is necessary to get a good education. Why do you think there are different leagues of schools? If education is good every where then why is there such big competition for private schools or even Universities like Harvard and Princeton?

Ya, sure dont' believe everything on the news, because every bad thing that they tell us is not true. I'm not the one who's too young to know what's true or not. It's you who's look at the small world around you, and see everything being just chipper and say that the rest of the world around you must be fine too.

--Mandy :angelic:
 

Spage

Cadet
Joined
Nov 13, 2003
I've been gone a while, but I've been reading over some of the more current stuff. All I really have to say it that abortion should remain an option for women. Having a child young eliminates many opprotunities for the MOTHER. Sorry, but in too many situation of a young girl getting pregnant, the fathers have been distant and not involved, or the young couple gets married and hate eachother (not always, but my aunt was like this). I know it's a big decision for the women/girl to make, but it is HER desicion.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Location
United States
Sorry to butt in and I know you weren't talking to me, but just thought I'd add

SydneyFan said:
Ok I get it now , we kill the babies because the mothers don't love them and the government does have enough money(so you still think) and it's better to be dead than go with out a good night kiss. And oh yeah I forgot we should kill the babies because they might grow up to be murders and drug addicts. Hey , why not get to the root of the problem and just sterilize all of the minorities. There are your statistics. We know their mothers don't love them and they all grow up to be on drugs and in gangs and on welfare and murderers. Skip the abortions and just sterilize all minorities. Black brown and yellow. Just leave good old white people. The back bone of America who all love all their babies. That's who only grows up to be president anyway right? whitepeople . That's what the statistics show anyway. That should free things up for you nicely. Then everyone can be happy. Even you. Cause their will still be a white baby to kill now and then. You have to remember that a happy childhood isn't everything. There is still plenty of life to live after your an adult and anybody can overcome a tough childhood. Being given the opportunity is often the hard part. And don't we like to call this the land of opportunity?

and here's your lack of experience again. you think that gangs come from lack of money? Every gang in LA comes from a family that has enough money to feed and cloth itself and buy the necessary items required to live in LA if they want it. The gangs come from being young and wild and impoverished in relation to the rest of society and then beaten on by everyone around you. That's what creates gangs. and a little greed. The money for schools is never their because in reality the schools are good enough the way they are. now your going to whine, but most people don't benefit one way or the other if they have a new text book or not and your government knows this. Good students are going to learn with the materials they have. It's always been that way. Students will almost always get what they "need", not what they want. Although in california the schools have really improved the last 10 years and are like Castles or big estates now. You can't believe everything you hear on the news which it sounds like you're obviously too young to know that yet as I can see you still like to sensationalize everything. Well it's wasted on me.
What's the worth of living if your own mother doesn't love you? I'm not saying just kill everybody who has a rough life, but having children who you know you'll never love and you know will have a rough life just isn't worth it in my opinion. Actually I do think that many of today's criminals are coming from families who don't care about their children. It has nothing to do with money. My history teacher was lecturing us today about gangs and such. He made a good point. The only reason why people join gangs is because no one else cares about them. Have you ever heard of a person with a good education and lots of friends join a gang? I don't think so...

Why bring up racisim? No one, that I know of at least, was talking about minorities until you said that.. As far as I'm concerned, abortions have nothing to do with races. I'm a minority myself.. My mother and father both are multi racial.. She cares about me even though she is a blonde with blue eyes and I have brown skin with dark hair.

Again with the gangs, I stick to the same thing I said earlier that many people who join them do it because they think the people in the gangs will actually care about them. And with schools, I believe that the atmosphere effects the way students learn, along with the teachers who are supposed to be teaching. Yes, it's true that any student can learn no matter where they are, but under some circumstances its very hard to. Almost none of the air conditioners in my school building work and the very few heaters that work make our rooms extremly hot to the point where it makes you sweat even though it's winter.
 

xdancer

Cadet
Joined
May 2, 2003
Location
North Carolina
i don't want to butt in. i've been accused of that before, but jeez, what is happening to these threads. they're descending into these personal attacks. debating loses it's fun when it gets personal. so, everyone take deep breaths!

anyway, there is always worth in living, even if your mother doesn't love you. there is always hope for the future. however, i stick to my original point. the decision to receive the abortion is the woman's, and the woman's only, though the father's opinion should be considered.
 

KikiCourt

Cadet
Joined
May 5, 2003
xdancer said:
i don't want to butt in. i've been accused of that before, but jeez, what is happening to these threads. they're descending into these personal attacks. debating loses it's fun when it gets personal. so, everyone take deep breaths!
I know what you mean :(

I try to refrain from posting in them because I'm scared to death I'll be attacked/flamed/yelled at :(
 

SydneyFan

Cadet
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Also you just said yourself that gangs are formed by the rich people. You know what in California
Why bring up racisim? No one, that I know of at least, was talking about minorities until you said that.. As far as I'm concerned, abortions have nothing to do with races. I'm a minority myself.. My mother and father both are multi racial.. She cares about me even though she is a blonde with blue eyes and I have brown skin with dark hair.
I didn't bring up racism, I brought up race, because Mandy was talking about statistics. and I don't know why you decide to talk about this now when you could have talked about it the night the discussion was going on and you were there. When statistics are being used with abortion race is very important with abortion for the same reason it is important in underdeveloped countries where according to Mandy most abortions take place. Babies in these circumstances (usually lower income)are likelier candidates for abortion because they are harder to care for do to lack of resources. And believe it or not the ghettos of america still have more minorities in them than white people. I was not making making a serious request to sterilize all minorities I was merely pointing out the ridiculousnous of aborting a child at the off chance that it might not have an ideal childhood.

and as far as my talking to you or not I always feels that all of my posts are open to anybody that would like to reply and I welcome your input. I thought everyone worked like that. Sorry. I didn't realize I'd been rude to you.

to mystery chick:I don't think I said gangs were formed by rich people? that's funny. I don't know where you got that from. There is only so much the government can do for people and I have spent time in those neighborhoods and really lived it and I will tell you there is no easy answer. Money, Parks, Education, Family,Church,Social gatherings, it's not enough. I don't mean to sound condescending but it's a whole nother world that I don't think you can understand unless you live it. And I can assure you more is being done to help than you will ever know. It is like fighting a disease(really) if that makes any sense. Love and friends and all that surely helps , it helps keep the seed from being planted but their are still plenty of people that have loving family and friends and yes education, that are in gangs. We're talking about raw sex drugs and power on a spectacular level. It's very hard to battle. Even when stacked up against Love family and friends, Which to a 16 year old can seem pretty boring in comparison to the thug life.

I think too that there are many people under the impression that all people coming from a bad home turn out to be failures. Really just the opposite is true. It may be true that many failures comes from bad homes, but the number of people that grow up in bad homes that go on to lead productive lives I'm sure would surprise you. I don't have statistics but I assure you it is more the norm than not. The human mind and body is very resiliant and once people become young adults they usually manage to find there way and the world opens up and can become a beautiful place for them. Often all they need is a little distance from there parents. The military is often a good start for some people like this, but I'm sure there are many other avenues as well.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>I made a mistake in the pole and forgot to add an option for people who believe that the fetus is a person.
Please vote in the other Abortion pole #1. Not this one!

Sorry for the confussion
</span>:shamefullyembarrased:



~~Spongy!
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
i said that i don't think the fetus is a person but if you convinced me, i would not have an abortion.

it honestly depends on the cituation though, even if the fetus is a person, if i was raped, i still would have an abortion.
i'm really torn on this issue though, because my best friend's mom was a rape victom and gave her up for adoption instead of having an abortion...
 

hotpot

The Bubbly
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Alias_Girl_624 said:
it honestly depends on the cituation though, even if the fetus is a person, if i was raped, i still would have an abortion.
i'm really torn on this issue though, because my best friend's mom was a rape victom and gave her up for adoption instead of having an abortion...
that is a very admirable thing for your friends mom to do.

i dont think a fetus is a person, but if you convinced me i would still have an abortion. i guess i shouldnt say bc i dont know that i would... still i dont support anything that interferes with a womans right to choose.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Location
United States
I voted that I don't believe a fetus is a person, but even if I did, I'd still have an abortion.

But, I agree that it depends on the situation. If a was in a good position and was mentally able to have the baby, then No I would not have abortion. But if the pregnancy was a result of rape, then I would have the abortion regardless if the fetus was a human or not.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>I fixed the pole to add an option for people who believe that a fetus is a person. Only this Abortion pole #1 will count not the other abortion pole #1.</span>


I am working on a major assignment worth 10% of my mark in Society.
My topic is abortion.
I am well aware of the fact that there allready is an abortion thread but this is a survey which, I need to conduct with percentages and statistic to back-up people views on the issue.
There are two polls which, I need you to vote in if you want to participate in this survey.
This is poll number 1, the other is poll number 2.

WARNING: If you do not understand the questions being given.....please DO NOT vote, for I need actual statistics in order to do this successfully.

You can be male or female to vote in these.

You are more than welcome to post your opinion for debate.

There is no right or wrong answer to this........it's YOUR opinion and I hope all will respect that with-out flaming. -_-


~~Spongy!
 

Sarah

Cadet
Joined
Jun 28, 2003
don't think the fetus is a person (or has an inviolable status) but I'd have an abortion even if you convinced me it is a person

That's what I think.

But what about if you believed that the fetus was a person, but you'd still have an abortion?
 

hotpot

The Bubbly
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
can my comments from the other one still count?

are you taking age into consideration at all in this spongey? (not that it matters, but i feel like that would be interesting)
 
Top Bottom