Politics Same-sex Marriages (¡DOS!)

Natalia said:
You say that and then don't expect anyone to get upset?!

Oh well, you're still very young, perhaps when you get out into the real world you might learn a bit of tolerance.
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I wont ever learn to tolerate something like that. I'm a devout Christian and I'll never accept it one bit. I'm as much upset as you are about me saying that, for the fact that people are gay. I don't care if I'm young, you can think thats why I think this way all you want, but a lot of other adults would agree.

And why do you say that this is a debate? I dont see any other people that are really against it posting here. And if you post a thread like this, expect to see people disagreeing with you.
 
ToughCookie47 said:
I wont ever learn to tolerate something like that. I'm a devout Christian and I'll never accept it one bit. I'm as much upset as you are about me saying that, for the fact that people are gay. I don't care if I'm young, you can think thats why I think this way all you want, but a lot of other adults would agree.

And why do you say that this is a debate? I dont see any other people that are really against it posting here. And if you post a thread like this, expect to see people disagreeing with you.
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If you are such a Christian, go and read the Bible and you will see that there are so many other things that goes against God's will and those acts are tolerated just because people (christians) want to tolerate them ... so, why being Gay is not part of that, I don't know ...

Would you ever tolerate someone who killed another human being? Being it having some husband in his rage kill his wife? or a group of guys killing a gay guy?
Would you tolerate someone who rapes another? (Being it a man raping a woman, or a group of men raping one gay guy?)

Its a shame people still use the Bible or being Christian as their way out ... go read the Bible again ... and read it good ... people forget that the Bible was NOT written in English ... not written in 1965 ... it was written some many years ago in a languages none of us know or talk these days ... passages in the Bible have been change to accomodate the Christian believe for their own purposes ...

Why do they always "attack, condemn" gay people and they forget about all the other things that are also "sins" in God's eyes ...

Forgive me Lord, for I have sinned ...

I read this somewhere sometime ago ... and it should be read again by some people ... ;)

When Christ was gay ...

When Christians pour their judgment on homosexual men and women, they do nothing less than make a mockery of their own savior, Jesus Christ. The grace they are willing to accept as followers of Christ is suddenly not good enough to extend to those they find offensive. It's a double standard, based not in biblical truth but in fear and the desire for control. To understand this, we must understand what Christians believe, and how their beliefs are being subverted from living in love to the canonizing of condemnation.

Christians believe we all have sins that keep us from eternal life. None of us are good enough to earn our way into heaven, not even the Mother Teresa's of the world.1 Sin - the breaking of God's laws as laid down in the Bible - must be "atoned" for; it must be penalized, and the penalty is eternal death,2 what some call going to hell. But all is not lost, say Christians, because God himself paid the price by sending his son, in the person of Jesus Christ, to die for all of us.3 This is called "propitiation," where Christ died in our place to pay the penalty of sin. In essence, he became all of us for those moments that he hung on the cross; he became whatever kind of sinner we are, and then he took those sins to the grave.4 But, as most of us know from celebrating Easter each year, Christians believe Christ did not stay in the grave. Once the penalty of sin was erased, Christ was raised from the dead and now lives in heaven with God.5

But we are not automatically "saved" from out sins. A person must decide to accept Christ's sacrifice on the cross in order to "join the family of God."6 Some people believe we must say a prayer, asking God to forgive us of our sins.7 Others say we must simply choose to believe in Christ.8 Still others say we must confess our belief in Christ's sacrifice by going through a public ritual that represents Christ's death and resurrection, a ritual known as baptism.9 Whichever way it's done, we must consciously decide to accept Christ's sacrifice for our own sins. This is called "grace." In a nutshell, grace is forgiving someone when they have wronged you. Since Christians believe all of us have wronged God with our sins, by believing that Christ paid our eternal penalty for our wrongdoing, we are accepting God's grace.10

Sounds simple enough. But it's not. Once you become a Christian, you should start seeing a change in your behavior.11 You should start learning to love.12 You should also stop wanting to sin.13 But here's the catch. You can't. Even after you accept Christ's forgiveness, you will continue to be a sinner. Try as you might to stop altogether, you just can't.14 Even the Apostle Paul, one of the most prolific writers in the Bible, complained that he kept sinning.15 But we are told to keep trying and that we should see some progress.16 We are also told that some people who say the words to become a Christian may not actually believe what they were saying. These people are not really saved.17 And, say some Christians, you'll know who they are because they don't even try to stop sinning, even though those who are saved can never stop either.

Confused? It gets worse. Some Christians have made an art of figuring out who is saved and who is not. They figure that if you are at least trying to align your lifestyle to fit their interpretation of God's laws, then you are living under God's grace. But if you choose to continue living in a lifestyle displeasing to God, you cannot really be saved because you are living in a state of rebellion. These Christians are diligent to pick out those sins that are "lifestyle" sins and those that are once-in-a-while sins that can affect even good Christians. Once-in-a-while sins they blow off with the phrase, "we all fail sometime." Lifestyle sins they condemn loudly, making the point that people who practice such sins are bound for hell, and if they seduce our children into such sins, they will go to hell too.

And this is where these kinds of Christians, known collectively as the Religious Right or Fundamentalists, make a mockery of their own Savior. They do this by picking and choosing which lifestyle sins are covered by God's grace and which ones are not. They do this by claiming that God's grace covers their own lifestyle sins but not those of the homosexual. They do this by accepting God's grace in their own lives and then refusing to extend that same grace to those they condemn for having the wrong lifestyle.

And they can do this because they don't believe they have any lifestyle sins of their own. If you ask them about it, they'll say things like, "I used to sleep around but I was forgiven of that sin and now I don't do it anymore." However, ask them if a homosexual can be saved by God's grace, and they will say, "The gay man who does not turn from his homosexuality is choosing to live a lifestyle counter to God's laws and is not, therefore, saved by grace." What they conveniently forget is that 50% of them - those who count themselves among the Religious Right - are divorced, and more than 85% of those are remarried. What that means is, according to the Bible, that nearly 43% of the same people who condemn the gay man for his homosexuality choose to live in a lifestyle of adultery, a sin that ranks equal to homosexuality in God's eyes.

That's right. The very people who condemn one "sinful" lifestyle are practicing another.

You see, in the Bible Jesus said:

"Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."
Luke 16:18

And the Apostle Paul (who continued to sin himself) said:

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

A divorced man who remarries is entering into an adulterous relationship. And it's not just a relationship; it's an adulterous lifestyle because the remarried man chooses to continue living in the adulterous relationship for the rest of his life (or until he divorces and remarries again). However, if you ask this adulterous man if he is still a Christian, he will say something like, "I believe God has forgiven me and I'm now living under his grace." And ask him if he's willing to leave his current wife in order to "turn from his adulterous lifestyle," and he will refuse because "God's grace has already saved him." But this is the same man who earlier claimed that the homosexual must turn from his "sinful" lifestyle as a condition of receiving God's grace.
Sound unfair? It is.

Sound ungodly? Let's see what Christ had to say about it:

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. "
Matthew 7:1-2

And:
"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents; and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, `Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, `Pay what you owe.' So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, `Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt. When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place. Then his lord summoned him and said to him, `You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."
Matthew 18:23-35

The Religious Right is nearly half-full with people living in continuous adulterous lifestyles, and those who are not remarried fully accept their remarried brothers and sisters without question. They even perform their adulterous marriage ceremonies in their churches. Yet they have the gall to preach from their pulpits or shout through the airwaves that God wants us to stop the world from accepting homosexuals the same way they have been accepted by God.
Jesus warned us not to be like the servant who was forgiven his debt by the grace of his lord but then used the legal system to throw a fellow slave in jail.18 The Religious Right, however, claim God's grace for their own lifestyle sins but then turn around and give tremendous amounts of time and money to use the legal system against homosexuals.

It is a double standard. It is a mockery. If Christ took their sins to the cross and became an adulterer through propitiation before burying that sin in the ground, then Christ also took the gay person's sin to the cross and became a homosexual before burying that sin in the ground. The Religious Right, and everyone else, should either accept that God's grace covers all of us, including those living in sinful lifestyles, or that none of us are covered. They should either condemn their remarried members or shut up about those among us who are gay.

But they don't. And we are left to wonder why.

Why do they pick on one "sinful" lifestyle but not their own? Why homosexuality and not adultery? They say it's because homosexuality is damaging our families and hurting our children. But which is really worse? Over 50% of American parents get divorced. Most of those remarry. Over 50% of our children have their families torn apart and then merged with the families of strangers (causing a lot of sexual abuse on children by step-parents). But less than 10% of the population is homosexual. Even if they had twice as many relationships as heterosexuals do, they could not possibly cause the kind of damage that heterosexual divorce and remarriage does.

A more logical explanation is that these Christians are afraid of the unknown and they want to control it. Heterosexuals have often been uncomfortable with homosexuals. The term "***" is used to insult one's manliness; and "dyke" to insult one's femininity. Society in general has not been kind to its homosexual members. But with the addition of Fundamentalist Religious fervor, and the ability to rationalize their own sins away, the Religious Right have turned the fear of homosexuality into a holy war against a portion of the population. Of course, the Religious Right claim they are not trying to hurt anyone. They use phrases like, "We must love the sinner but hate the sin." But as Einstein said and Christ demonstrated, "You cannot simultaneously say that you love someone and use your power against them."

Christ did not use his power to legislate against the sinful people of his day. Instead he went drinking with them.19 Christ did not condemn the person caught with her pants down - literally. Instead he embarrassed her detractors by saying that anyone who had not sinned could throw the first stone at her - and not one got thrown.20 Christ did not raise money for his causes by claiming that those involved in the sinful lifestyles of his day were ganging up to "destroy the family." Instead he invited them to be his friends and followers.21

And perhaps that is the most logical explanation yet. Playing on people's fears is a great way to make money. Advertisers use it every day. If you don't want dandruff, use this. If you don't want to smell bad, use that. If you don't want to end up sick or dead, eat our stuff instead of their stuff. And if you don't want homosexuals taking over our schools, support our cause by sending in your donations. Fear sells. Whether intentional or not, the truth is the Religious Right rake in a great deal of money every time they claim homosexuals are threatening our nation's families, or worse, our children. The former vice-president of Focus on the Family, a leading Religious Right organization, stated in his book, "James Dobson's War on America" (Dobson is the founder and president) that when their donations went down, they could simply broadcast a scary special about the gay agenda (or the evil women's movement or the even more evil abortion rights groups - but never remarried people since that would drive away nearly half of their listeners) and their revenues would increase substantially.22

This is how they "love the sinner," by abusing them in order to make money? The term "mockery" doesn't begin to describe the trashing these so-called Christians are doing to God's name. The Religious Right should get down on their knees and beg the forgiveness of every homosexual man or woman they have publicly condemned on their way to the bank. They should beg God's forgiveness for being just like the wicked servant in Christ's story, forgiven of their own sinful lifestyles but unwilling to forgive the lifestyles of their fellow human beings. And then they should stop their self-righteous rhetoric and remember that for a moment in their savior's life, as he hung on a cross for everyone's sin, that Christ was gay.
 
I support gay marraige. (y) Anything that goes against Christian values, I support. I think homophobia is stupid, ignorant, and cowardly, and people who are homophobic and hate gay people in the name of their religon need realize that we are all equal people on the same planet. Maybe your religon is important to you, but just because your bible says homosexual behavior is wrong, does not make that true. Just because YOUR religon says something is "wrong" or "right" does not make it so.
 
I never said that I did approve of killing, raping and adultery. The reason I'm commenting about this, is because there is a thread about it. If there was a thread asking if you 'supported' rape and murders, I would strongly disagree there too. I am a Christian and I have read the Bible, and if you think Christ was gay, I highly doubt you're a Christian. I dont believe that Christ was gay, and I know he wasn't. In the book of Corinthians it says that homosexuals are not Christians. That probably doesnt mean anything to you, but I just thought I'd say it.

You're also taking things out of proportion and messing up what the Bible says. If you were a Christian you'd know that. And in the part I did read of the article, and duh, people are human, they DO sin. Becoming a Christian/accepting Christ in your life doesn't mean you wont be tempted to sin and you wont sin, it simply means you know you did wrong, and you try not to repeat the same thing on purpose.

I'm sorry that you don't like that I disagree with you, but that's what a debate is. I'm sorry that I have a different opinion, so I'm not going to come here again. You don't seem to like anyone who disagrees with what you believe. But honestly, why do you call this a debate if you dont want people to disagree. And I dont know where you got that article, but a lot of the things in it were taken out of the Bible, and messed up. And I'm not judging you, (or I didn't intend to) thats up to God, but I'm just voicing my opinion as freely as you guys want to.

Please don't post back to this expecting me to respond. I wont ever read your posts. I hardly ever come to AA and post anyway. Evidently it was a bad idea to come back.

This sure is some 'debate'.
 
I never said that I did approve of killing, raping and adultery. The reason I'm commenting about this, is because there is a thread about it.

Well if you say you're a christian then read the bible. It says that fathers can sell their kids into slavery and that they can kill disobedient kids, and that women have to marry their rapist. Many things they say in the bible have no place in today's world. If you say you support the old testament and the bible, and not gays, then you are also saying you support EVERYTHING in the bible. Including the things I just mentioned above, killing, slavery and marrying your rapist.

I am a Christian and I have read the Bible, and if you think Christ was gay, I highly doubt you're a Christian. I dont believe that Christ was gay, and I know he wasn't. In the book of Corinthians it says that homosexuals are not Christians. That probably doesnt mean anything to you, but I just thought I'd say it.

The article wasn't saying Jesus was gay. It was saying he died for gays, too, so people should accept them.

You're also taking things out of proportion and messing up what the Bible says. If you were a Christian you'd know that.

Wow. It's christians that are f***ing up the bible and taking it out of proportion and not other people. If you're really a christian and you "love" other people, why do you hate gay people so much?

And in the part I did read of the article, and duh, people are human, they DO sin.

Yeah, and you say they have to be forgiven for it. So if you sin, why do you judge gay people if you say they're also sinning? Ever heard the man with no sin cast the first stone? Being "christian" and all, you should know that. :rolleyes:

And I dont know where you got that article, but a lot of the things in it were taken out of the Bible, and messed up.

You do know the bible was written by people right? It's some christians that mess up the bible and only take the parts of it they want to use to control other people.
If you christians "love" and "forgive" other people, why are you so quick to jude and say you hate homosexuals so much? Sounds like a bunch of bulls*** to me.
 
You're also taking things out of proportion and messing up what the Bible says. If you were a Christian you'd know that.
I'm a Christian, and there's nothing that upsets me more than the current wave of Christian fundamentalism sweeping across the United States. Suddenly everybody thinks it's fine to abuse a religion and use it to express their hatred towards other people. (Sound like what's going on elsewhere?) It's because of this extremism that Christians have such a bad name these days. Religion has to evolve with the times, as everybody else has been pointing out.

Tolerance and kindness are the kind of Christian values I would rather be promoting (rather than the kinds of attitudes you are expressing in your posts).
 
Hi. I haven't read through any of your first thread, but I read what was in this one, and I have a few things I want to say. But before I comment on anything I'd like to say a few things, just so you can understand where I'm coming from. First I am a Christian (and I was a little, I don't know offended seems too strong of a word...hurt and saddened maybe, at the way some of you have stereotyped all Christians to be. So please don't hear I'm a Christian and just assume I'm one of those people.) Second, I don't hate gay people. I may not agree with the way they choose to live their lives, but it's not my place to judge them. I love gay people just the same as I do straight people. Third, I don't support gay marriage, but I'll explain why below.

Natalia said:
I just don't see why people are so strongly against something that isn't even going to effect them. Gay people being married is no different than gay people living together in a relationship. Perhaps people are in denial and if hoosexuals aren't actually married, they can pretend homosexuality doesn't exist! :lol:
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It does effect me though. To you it may not seem like it would, and I can understand why you would think that. But it does effect me. To me marriage is the union of a man and a woman. It's something that is sacred to me. Now, I have no problem if a man and a man or a woman and a woman want to commit their lives to each other or live together or do whatever together. That is none of my business. I do have a problem when what they want to do changes what marriage means to me, what it has meant to me my whole life.

Sarkney_fan020 said:
And being gay is NOT a choice. Just like a person can't choose their height or skin color or hair color when they're born. Why would a person choose to be gay in the first place if people like you only dicriminate against them?
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I just could not believe you would say this. I'm not even going to comment on if a person chooses to be gay, I'm not even completely sure what I think about that one, but it doesn't even matter what I or you think on that becuz we have no proof of a gene that decides a person's sexual preference. This was not even my point. My point is, how can you say that a person would never make a choice to do something that would allow them to be discriminated against by other people? Gay people aren't the only people that are treated cruelly. There are people that are picked on all over the world, and a lot of them are picked on for choices that they make, whether it be opinions they voice, clothes they wear, activities they participate in.

I don't want to upset anyone by saying this, but just to give an example. In this thread, there have been several posters who have completely discriminated against Christians. People of all different religious beliefs have faced discrimination since forever, but they don't decide to lose their faith just because others aren't accepting.

So I've just had this thought, I don't know where it came from, but I feel the need to share it now. Let's assume that people are either born straight or gay. So we have Jane. Jane was born gay. Now Jane has two choices, she can go with what she feels and be gay, or she can decide she doesn't want to and change the way she feels. (please don't yell at me, this is all hypothetical) My point is that Jane has a choice. Whether you are born that way or not, you have a choice to be gay. If you choose to be gay, that's just great for you. But owe up to it and admit that it was your choose. Don't hide behide it being the way you were born and that you can't help it. Sorry, I'm done with my random thought now and will move on.

Alias_Gay said:
If you are such a Christian, go and read the Bible and you will see that there are so many other things that goes against God's will and those acts are tolerated just because people (christians) want to tolerate them ... so, why being Gay is not part of that, I don't know ...
This is exactly why I would never look down on a person for being gay. A sin is a sin. I am certainly not sinless. There are many things that the Bible says should not be done, that I've done. I'm no where close to being perfect. If I'm going to truely believe in what the Bible teaches me (which I do, even if I don't always manage to live it) then killing someone is just as much a sin as telling a lie.

I don't like to think that I tolerate sin, in that I think it's okay and I just accept it. But I do know that we all sin, and nobody's sin is any worse than the next person's.

Alias_Gay said:
Its a shame people still use the Bible or being Christian as their way out ... go read the Bible again ... and read it good ... people forget that the Bible was NOT written in English ... not written in 1965 ... it was written some many years ago in a languages none of us know or talk these days ... passages in the Bible have been change to accomodate the Christian believe for their own purposes ...
I simply do not agree with what you are saying here. I know that lots of Christians will interpret passages in the Bible to fit their own purposes. But you have absolutely no proof that the Bible has been changed like that. Yes, there are several passages that have a slightly different meaning when you go back and read it in an ancient language, but the meaning hasn't been changed in the way that you are implying. However that does not mean that individual people don't go around and pick out certain verses from the Bible and read them in a way to fit their needs. It's not right, and all Christians don't do that.

Sarkney_fan020 said:
Well if you say you're a christian then read the bible. It says that fathers can sell their kids into slavery and that they can kill disobedient kids, and that women have to marry their rapist. Many things they say in the bible have no place in today's world. If you say you support the old testament and the bible, and not gays, then you are also saying you support EVERYTHING in the bible. Including the things I just mentioned above, killing, slavery and marrying your rapist.
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I want to apologize if I say too much here, I don't want to sound like I'm trying to push my beliefs on anyone. I'm not. You all have the right to believe anything you want. And I would never want to try and tell you that you have to agree with me, because I'm right. I do however have a problem with what is quoted above. The way people lived durning the time of the Old Testiment was...interesting. It clearly states in the Bible that we aren't supposed to live like that anymore. That's what the New Testiment is for. Jesus died on the cross for our sins and everything changed. The rules we are supposed to live by today are the ones in the New Testiment, not the Old.


I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings or offened anyone with anything that I've said. That was not my intention. I just felt like some of the things that were being said in here where not completely accurate and I tried my best to be considerate in the way I responded. If I did upset someone I hope you will believe that my apology is sincern.

~Mel~
 
mellybelly said:
It does effect me though. To you it may not seem like it would, and I can understand why you would think that. But it does effect me. To me marriage is the union of a man and a woman. It's something that is sacred to me. Now, I have no problem if a man and a man or a woman and a woman want to commit their lives to each other or live together or do whatever together. That is none of my business. I do have a problem when what they want to do changes what marriage means to me, what it has meant to me my whole life.
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Well, no offense, but I find that incredibly selfish. How much more do you think your views are upsetting to homosexuals who want to marry? Because of those attitudes you are affecting their lives much more than them marrying would change yours. Who gives you the right to decide another person's happiness?

Marriage is sacred to homosexuals too. That's the whole reason they want to have the same rights as everybody else. If they didn't consider it sacred, it wouldn't be such a big deal for them to get the right to marry.
 
I just could not believe you would say this. I'm not even going to comment on if a person chooses to be gay, I'm not even completely sure what I think about that one, but it doesn't even matter what I or you think on that becuz we have no proof of a gene that decides a person's sexual preference. This was not even my point.

Well, maybe if you were gay or bi, like me, you would know that it's not a person's choice. Could you just wake up one day and choose to be gay? I don't think so.

Christians. People of all different religious beliefs have faced discrimination since forever, but they don't decide to lose their faith just because others aren't accepting.

wtf!? It's the christians and other faiths that aren't accepting gay people, not the other way around! Maybe people wouldn't judge religions if they just chose to accept gay people as we are, and not as what we are doing is sin!

have Jane. Jane was born gay. Now Jane has two choices, she can go with what she feels and be gay, or she can decide she doesn't want to and change the way she feels. (please don't yell at me, this is all hypothetical) My point is that Jane has a choice. Whether you are born that way or not, you have a choice to be gay. If you choose to be gay, that's just great for you.

Maybe if you think gay people shouldn't have relationships just because of YOUR religion, straight people shouldn't have relationships either. That's only fair...


My point is, how can you say that a person would never make a choice to do something that would allow them to be discriminated against by other people? Gay people aren't the only people that are treated cruelly. There are people that are picked on all over the world, and a lot of them are picked on for choices that they make, whether it be opinions they voice, clothes they wear, activities they participate in.

That doesn't make discrimination against homosexuals ok. We have to stop discriminating against people, even gay people. Gay people don't have a choice to be gay. Also, this topic is about same sex marriages. If you want to make a thread about how everyone else is discriminated against, go ahead.
 
After doing a lot of psychology at univeristy level, as well as in my final two years of high school, I find it very frustrating that various religious groups still promote the idea that homosexuality is an immoral lifestyle choice. I have actually done a lot of work focussing particulary on homosexuality. But what do you say to people who refuse to believe any science that proves their beliefs are wrong?!
 
It does effect me though. To you it may not seem like it would, and I can understand why you would think that. But it does effect me. To me marriage is the union of a man and a woman. It's something that is sacred to me. Now, I have no problem if a man and a man or a woman and a woman want to commit their lives to each other or live together or do whatever together. That is none of my business. I do have a problem when what they want to do changes what marriage means to me, what it has meant to me my whole life.

Wow...that does sound selfish...there are other people in the world besides you....if you don't like same sex marriages, don't get one.
 
To me marriage is the union of a man and a woman. It's something that is sacred to me.
That's nice for you. But not everyone holds that veiw, and that veiw is strictly based on the Bible. I compleatly respect your right to hold the veiws you hold. But that doesn't change the fact that marrige is no longer just a sacred, Christian tradition. People of many faiths (and no faith) marry, and it has become a legal institution, being marries gives the partner rights that they would not otherwise have.

And the goverment should NOT be making laws based on religious ideals. [Some] Christians think gay marrige is wrong? Great for them. Whent the US becomes a Chrisitian state, then banning gay marrige makes perfect sense. But right now there is supposed to be a little thing called speeration of Church and State. Banning gay marrige is a violation of that. Nobody comes in here arguing against gay marrige on any basis other than religion. And because religion should not effect our laws, it's a pretty weak argument.
 
agnes bean said:
That's nice for you. But not everyone holds that veiw, and that veiw is strictly based on the Bible. I compleatly respect your right to hold the veiws you hold. But that doesn't change the fact that marrige is no longer just a sacred, Christian tradition. People of many faiths (and no faith) marry, and it has become a legal institution, being marries gives the partner rights that they would not otherwise have.

And the goverment should NOT be making laws based on religious ideals. [Some] Christians think gay marrige is wrong? Great for them. Whent the US becomes a Chrisitian state, then banning gay marrige makes perfect sense. But right now there is supposed to be a little thing called speeration of Church and State. Banning gay marrige is a violation of that. Nobody comes in here arguing against gay marrige on any basis other than religion. And because religion should not effect our laws, it's a pretty weak argument.
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Well, actually marriage isn't a 'Christian' thing at all. It was around long before Chrisianity, and it exists in every religion in the world. I don't know why Christian fundamentalists insist that they 'own' it.
 
I don't know why Christian fundamentalists insist that they 'own' it.

Because they want to push their beliefs on everyone else. And it's obviously working, since the US doesn't have gay marriage yet (except in California and Massachusetts)

If you choose to be gay, that's just great for you. But owe up to it and admit that it was your choose. Don't hide behide it being the way you were born and that you can't help it. Sorry, I'm done with my random thought now and will move on.

So you're saying that because of your religious belief it's wrong for gay people to have any kind of relationship? That's kind of messed up. Straight people never get asked why they are straight and whether they made a choice to be straight or not. If "christian" people preach that gay people can never have gay relationships or even act on their feelings, they should not have relationships either. "Don't hide behide it being the way you were born and that you can't help it" Okay, fine, It wasn't my choice to be gay. But if religious people really cared about gay people, they wouldn't have relationships either.
 
Natalia said:
Well, actually marriage isn't a 'Christian' thing at all. It was around long before Chrisianity, and it exists in every religion in the world. I don't know why Christian fundamentalists insist that they 'own' it.
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I know!! When I was having a debate a few weeks ago with someone in my Bio class, she was insisting that marriage was started by Christianity. But it has been around since the Greeks and the Romans, which is essentially before Christianity.

This actually has turned into a debate, despite what some people may think.
 
AgentDesertRose said:
I know!! When I was having a debate a few weeks ago with someone in my Bio class, she was insisting that marriage was started by Christianity. But it has been around since the Greeks and the Romans, which is essentially before Christianity.

This actually has turned into a debate, despite what some people may think.
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Wow. I can't believe anybody could be stupid enough to think Christians invented marriage. And not only that, but be presented with the evidence it isn't true, and to still believe it! :confused:
 
I know its just plainly ludicrous. but then again people are stupid enough to not want every one to be treated as equals, yet still spout that God made us one and the same. Uh hello contradiction. Yes i believe that God made us one and the same AND THEREFORE, we should all be treated as equals.
 
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