Politics Israel and the Middle East

[the_alliance]

i believe they should only get portions of the west bank and gaza strip
israel was granted the land by two higher authorities the un, andgod
palestinians are displaced jordanians and egyptians, they have other lands they can go to

so if the US all of a sudden said, anyone of Asian and African descent must leave, because you guys have two whole continents to live on, would that be right? plus, the palestinians were there first. yes, God did give the land to the Israelites and the UN said so, it doesn't justify kicking the Palestinians out.

we dont have to kick them out, they can live in the territories, but the difference between the us and israel is the us was founded supposedly to be open to everyone, israel was founded as the jewish homeland

the bottom line is there is no such thing as palestinians! they did not eexist till '67, the PLO wasnt founded utnil '64, and do u think arafraud is a palestinian? guess what he was bborn in egypt

and my view is not only that god gave it to the jews, the UN gave it to the jews

and guess what? dou think thatthe jews have never experienced being expelled from countries adn that they dont know what its like?
the jews were expelled from israel once by the babylonians, (im not sure i think by the romans too), in world war two, they were scapegoated fro germanys econ problems
so dont say they dont know what its like being displaced

israel was formed by the (darn) British (no offense to the British)! the US was created by the people. so why should the palestinians listen to what the british say about their land?

i dont believe that either one should have it, but i'm just trying to create a debate

 

[the_alliance]

i think that the Arabs only hate the Jews because the US supports the Jews in Israel. (funny how the US supports Jews and absolutely hates Catholics; maybe we need to revive Hitler to kill millions of Catholics before the US stops picking on us)

 

[Tuulia]

The UN should divide it up between the two

 

[GO Syd]

since in the area u just mentioned im uninformed, please enlighten me on why the us hates catholics and why does the us pick on them

 

[GO Syd]

excuse, my gradparents are from Poland. During world war 2  my grandmother at the age of 14,  frogmarched her at gunpoint from her home at the time , which was Grenbov Poland, by the SS on to a railway cattle truck. Then she was taken to Germany to work as a slave domestic worker for a german family. My gradfather was exiled by Stalin from what was then White Russia (Belaruse) and then part of Poland, to Siberia after Germany and Russia split Poland up between sometime during ww2. So you don't have to tell me what it is like to be displaced.

What happened to the Jews during WW2 was indefensible in the strongest terms. But it wasn't just the Jews that suffered in that War, non jewish Poles Czechovslovaks, and other non jewish eastern europeans suffered immensely.
You would think that most Isreali's knowing about the holocaust would not want that to happen to anybody else, am i wrong in thinking that that is not the case.

your last sentance didnt quite make sense to me, but i dont doubt that others were persecuted, i know many many stories and have heard the stories personally of others that were persecuted
but jews were hit the hardest and the ones mainly persecuted

QUOTE (GO Syd @ May 19 2004, 08:13 AM)
QUOTE (the_alliance @ May 18 2004, 08:31 PM)
QUOTE (GO Syd @ May 18 2004, 05:57 PM)
i believe they should only get portions of the west bank and gaza strip
israel was granted the land by two higher authorities the un, andgod
palestinians are displaced jordanians and egyptians, they have other lands they can go to 


so if the US all of a sudden said, anyone of Asian and African descent must leave, because you guys have two whole continents to live on, would that be right? plus, the palestinians were there first. yes, God did give the land to the Israelites and the UN said so, it doesn't justify kicking the Palestinians out. 


we dont have to kick them out, they can live in the territories, but the difference between the us and israel is the us was founded supposedly to be open to everyone, israel was founded as the jewish homeland

the bottom line is there is no such thing as palestinians! they did not eexist till '67, the PLO wasnt founded utnil '64, and do u think arafraud is a palestinian? guess what he was bborn in egypt

and my view is not only that god gave it to the jews, the UN gave it to the jews

and guess what? dou think thatthe jews have never experienced being expelled from countries adn that they dont know what its like?
the jews were expelled from israel once by the babylonians, (im not sure i think by the romans too), in world war two, they were scapegoated fro germanys econ problems
so dont say they dont know what its like being displaced 


israel was formed by the (darn) British (no offense to the British)! the US was created by the people. so why should the palestinians listen to what the british say about their land?

i dont believe that either one should have it, but i'm just trying to create a debate 

actually israel was not created by the british, israel was created by members of zionist organizations and the members and why would u say that its a bad thing that "britian" "supposedly" founded israel?

 

[Scarlet Crystal]

this is where religion comes in. i don't want to offend anyone, but the people in israel need to get past their claims about the land being given to them by god. no, the world does not revolve around them, and yes, there are other races and groups who need a home land. so they should all get up and find some other place to go? i think not. and besides, israel is losing over time. the palestinian population is growing MUCH faster and they are becoming very strong. they will not be satisfied with a "get up and leave" command.

and all the israelies going to live in the west bank and stuff are just going to have to move eventually, and we (the US) are going to have to pay for it. literally. it will come out of OUR MONEY. i don't think that sounds too fun.

 

[GO Syd]

its not just a religous claim
and second, sure they may have a more increasing population, but at the rate they r blowing themselves up hopefully it sort of equals out
third, please do see the forum about this and talk about it there

let me just pose the questoin, what religion or ethnicity are you? do you have a homeland?

most likely you will say yes and name a country, israel is the jews one

 

[MVhunny]

i would say that the land belongs to the israelis. not the jews...the israeils. the palestinians...in my opinion...refus to accept this because yes, many of the israelis are jews. arafat was offered his own state at least twice before, and he rejected it. for him, its all or nothing, and until then hes going to continue having poeple blow themselves up.

 

[MVhunny]

the us has been picking on catholics because tons of priests have been convicted of molesting young boys...

and on that note...

israel may be killing some innocnet palestinians as well...but we have already looked at the number. 75 percent of the people the palestinians have killed have been non combatant women and children, versus the 33 percent of palestinians. its not justified on either side, but its my belief that israelis are doing their best to target only terrorists. obviously that hasnt been happening entierly, but they arent targeting the civilians like the palestinains.

 

[GO Syd]

i know about the molestation but i dont really see the us picking on catholics for it that much but then again the issue has temporarily died down in wake of iraq scandals and other news occurances

where did u get the figures about the murders?

 

[Scarlet Crystal]

its not just a religous claim
and second, sure they may have a more increasing population, but at the rate they r blowing themselves up hopefully it sort of equals out
third, please do see the forum about this and talk about it there

let me just pose the questoin, what religion or ethnicity are you? do you have a homeland?

most likely you will say yes and name a country, israel is the jews one

no. i'm not a part of any religion, but i strongly believe in god. it's my own sort of religion, i guess...

and i ask you: who else claims to have a homeland?

and jews are blowing htemselves up, for the same reason as the palestinians! they hate the conflict and want ti to end! but b/c both parties are so STUBBORN...

 

[GO Syd]

many others claim to have a homeland
and jews are not blowing themselves up i have no idea what ur talking about

and as for being stubborn here is the bottome line:
if the arabs were to put down their arms and stop blowing jews up there would be peace
if israel layed down her arms there would be no israel

 

[SecretAgentMan]

look, more innocent Palestinians were killed.....

 

[GO Syd]

yah we discussed that already, and i will restate my point
sure israelis kill innocent palestinians, they do their best effort not to and stuff happens the dont do it on purpose
explain to me how its any different than the us accidentaly killing civilians in afghanistan or iraq

and please check your facts b4 making such claims...there was only one innocent out of the bunch

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/430148.html

read that...only one was innocent the rest were militants and assosiated with terrorist groups



and my honest opinion that i dont knwo if u share or not, but if they have a harmful malicious intent to maim kill or injure civilians, do you really care if they die? was anybody upset when uday and kusay (sp?) hussein were killed? the were just as bad or worse than their father! was anybody angry over israel killing adolf eichmann, the one who wrote and planned the bulk of the final solution?
if they are terrorists what is the problem with killing them

 

[xdancer]

if they are terrorists what is the problem with killing them

ooh..that's dangerous territory in my opinion. by saying that, you're dehumanizing those people. even if they are terrorists, they are still human.

 

[GO Syd]

if you had a relative killed in 9/11 and you had osama bin laden in your hands you want to tell me you wouldnt feel any desire to kill them
by them not caring about human lives and killing innocent civilians, they no longer are human, they are monsters

 

[SecretAgentMan]

the israeli army are cowards and monsters themselves

 

[ashqua]

the israeli army are cowards and monsters themselves

Well I'm not for the Israeli army, but I think that what they did is horrible. They killed 40 innocent persons. There's no excuse for that, especially since there was children among them. Yes Israel can defend herself from terrorists but not by killing children. So sorry I think they're wrong. They just destroyed I don't know how many houses before leaving, as if nothing had happened. If it was their house I'm sure they'd have done something, but the Palestinians can't do that. So it's unfair.
Plz remember that I'm not against Israel I'm just against what they're doing.

 

[MVhunny]

so the israeli army killed some innocents...thats ALL the palestinians have been doing.

heres a couple recent examples...these are from an encyclopedia online. You said israel cant retaliate when killing children. well, then you have to go back and say how can you justify how 73 percent of the people killed by palestinians were WOMEN AND CHILDREN?

* May 2: Tali Hatual, a 34-year-old Israeli woman, eight months pregnant, and her four daughters: Hila (11), Hadar (9), Roni (7) and Meirav (2), were intentionally killed by terrorist gunfire in the Gaza Strip, near the Kissufim checkpoint. Three other Israelis were wounded. The Popular Resistance Committees and Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

May 7: An Israeli motorist was stabbed in the back by Arabs that stopped to help him with his disabled vehicle. The Arabs fled the scence after the attack. The Israeli was transported to hospital.

there are more examples, but those are just two. the first one showinf the death of basically 5 children, because the mother was pregnant.

 

[MVhunny]

both sides are definetely not equally stubborn. israel has at least twice agreed to un partition plans which would split israel in two, and both times arafat and the palestinians have refused the offer.