SecretAgentMan
Caution: Beware of Male
last year a mother and her 4 kids were blown up by an Israeli helicopter. Death and destruction is on both sides.
yah and i dont disagree with that. but israelis are doing there best to only target terrorists. obviously thats not worling out entirely well, but only 33 percent of the people killed have been non combatant. that may seem like a lot, but 77 percent of the israelis killed by the palestinians have been women and children, non combatants. Like a bus full of kida on the way home from school...or a bomb in a cafe.SecretAgentMan said:
oh and last year? i think by now we're way past that...how about the bus bombs that go off almost every day?
No I'm sorry this different. These persons were killed by terrorists not by the Army. The Palestinian army didn't killed this poor woman and her children. I'm not saying the Palestinians are innocent because they also did some bad things. But it's the government that did them. It's a group of people who has nothing to do with the population. You can't agree or not but I think that both side are guilty. They killed innocent people.MVhunny said:
SecretAgentMan
Caution: Beware of Male
you forget that more Palestinians are dying then IsraelisMVhunny said:
i don't know how accurate those numbers are though
the_alliance
Cadet
so by killing osama bin laden, your relative will suddenly come back to life? "no, but killing him will prevent him from killing any more people" um, can't that problem also be taken care of by putting him in jail? if you wanna be inhumane, why not torture him until he begs us for death? that sounds much better (at least, that's what i'd doGO Syd said:
)
SecretAgentMan
Caution: Beware of Male
RAFAH, Gaza Strip - A 3-year-old Palestinian girl was shot dead Saturday as a senior U.N. official toured a battle-scarred refugee camp where Israeli troops continue the hunt for weapons-smuggling tunnels and militants.
The United Nations (news - web sites) condemned the "completely unacceptable" destruction of houses, which has left 1,650 Palestinians homeless in the last 10 days.
In the West Bank, four people were wounded by a Palestinian suicide bomber near an Israeli army checkpoint.
On Friday, Israeli troops pulled back from the Brazil and Tel Sultan neighborhoods of Rafah, leaving behind dozens of damaged or destroyed buildings, torn-up roads and flattened cars. The army said it was redeploying forces and that its offensive ? aimed at capturing militants and uncovering tunnels that stretch across the nearby Egyptian border ? would continue.
Peter Hansen, head of the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, visited the two areas Saturday. A few shops opened so residents could stock up, and people ventured tentatively outside, waving white flags and strips of cloth.
Despite the partial withdrawal of troops, bursts of machine-gun fire could be heard as Hansen toured a street littered with clothes, mattresses and the collapsed corrugated tin roofs of devastated houses.
"The human price has been extremely high for this operation," Hansen said.
He said 1,650 Palestinians had been made homeless over the past 10 days of the operation, including a brief Israeli incursion into Rafah last week. More than 11,000 Rafah residents have been made homeless by Israeli demolitions since 2000.
Municipal officials said at least 43 homes were demolished and dozens more damaged in the camp this week. The army said five houses were destroyed after they were used as cover by militants to attack troops.
"I think that the destruction is probably even worse than I've seen ... and is indeed completely, completely unacceptable," Hansen said.
In Tel Sultan, where workers struggled to restore water and electricity supplies and clear sewage from the streets, some angry residents refused to speak to the U.N. envoy.
"People want actions and not words," said resident Sami Khateeb. "We don't want food, all we need is to live like human beings, the world should feel our suffering, they should act to end this aggression."
Forty-one Palestinians have been killed since "Operation Rainbow" began Tuesday, including gunmen and eight demonstrators hit by a tank shell during a protest march.
A 3-year-old girl was killed Saturday in the Brazil neighborhood while Hansen's delegation was in the area. Relatives said Rawan Mohammed Abu Zeid was killed by a gunshot to the head as she walked to a shop to buy candy.
"We were playing in the house when she told me she wanted some candy," said her brother Diyab Abu Zeid, 19, crying uncontrollably on the telephone. "The older kids in the neighborhood were going to the store so I let her go with them.
"There was no one in the street but the kids, not even other adults," he added.
The army said it had no reports of shots being fired in the area.
Israel says its offensive has resulted in the arrest of dozens of militants and the killing of a local leader of the armed group Hamas. The army also said it had discovered one arms-smuggling tunnel during the operation.
Overnight, tanks, jeeps and bulldozers moved into a sparsely populated area on the outskirts of the town of Rafah, next to the camp, witnesses and Palestinian security forces said. Farmer Barakat Abu Halaweh, 40, said armored vehicles flattened greenhouses and chicken coops and ordered him and his family of 15 to leave their house for three days.
Mahmoud Zahar, a Hamas leader in Gaza, said the Israeli offensive "will escalate the resistance and will increase the commitment of the Palestinian people to pursue the path of Jihad and steadfastness."
Palestinian officials said Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman would meet Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) on Monday, presumably to discuss the crisis in Rafah. Israel has accused Egypt of not doing enough to halt the smuggling across its border with Gaza.
In a message to a summit of Arab leaders in Tunis, Arafat urged the international community to pressure Israel back to the negotiating table. He said military force "will not provide peace, security and stability for Israelis, but peace will, for a flourishing future for our children and theirs."
Israel is under intense diplomatic pressure to end the offensive and refrain from the sweeping demolition of Palestinian homes.
A key objective of the military operation is the widening of an Israeli patrol road between Rafah and the Egyptian border, which would make it more difficult for weapons smugglers to dig tunnels. Widening the road would require the demolition of dozens of Palestinian houses, a plan criticized by the United Nations, the European Union (news - web sites) and the United States.
Israeli officials said Attorney General Meni Mazuz believed the road-widening plan would not hold up in local and international courts, and that he told the army to come up with alternatives that would cause less destruction.
A suicide bomber blew himself up at an Israeli army checkpoint east of the West Bank city of Nablus on Saturday, wounding four people, the Israeli military and paramedics said. Military sources said one soldier was slightly wounded and three Palestinians hurt, one seriously.
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine militant group claimed responsibility for the bombing in a call to The Associated Press, saying it was a response to the Rafah incursion.
The United Nations (news - web sites) condemned the "completely unacceptable" destruction of houses, which has left 1,650 Palestinians homeless in the last 10 days.
In the West Bank, four people were wounded by a Palestinian suicide bomber near an Israeli army checkpoint.
On Friday, Israeli troops pulled back from the Brazil and Tel Sultan neighborhoods of Rafah, leaving behind dozens of damaged or destroyed buildings, torn-up roads and flattened cars. The army said it was redeploying forces and that its offensive ? aimed at capturing militants and uncovering tunnels that stretch across the nearby Egyptian border ? would continue.
Peter Hansen, head of the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, visited the two areas Saturday. A few shops opened so residents could stock up, and people ventured tentatively outside, waving white flags and strips of cloth.
Despite the partial withdrawal of troops, bursts of machine-gun fire could be heard as Hansen toured a street littered with clothes, mattresses and the collapsed corrugated tin roofs of devastated houses.
"The human price has been extremely high for this operation," Hansen said.
He said 1,650 Palestinians had been made homeless over the past 10 days of the operation, including a brief Israeli incursion into Rafah last week. More than 11,000 Rafah residents have been made homeless by Israeli demolitions since 2000.
Municipal officials said at least 43 homes were demolished and dozens more damaged in the camp this week. The army said five houses were destroyed after they were used as cover by militants to attack troops.
"I think that the destruction is probably even worse than I've seen ... and is indeed completely, completely unacceptable," Hansen said.
In Tel Sultan, where workers struggled to restore water and electricity supplies and clear sewage from the streets, some angry residents refused to speak to the U.N. envoy.
"People want actions and not words," said resident Sami Khateeb. "We don't want food, all we need is to live like human beings, the world should feel our suffering, they should act to end this aggression."
Forty-one Palestinians have been killed since "Operation Rainbow" began Tuesday, including gunmen and eight demonstrators hit by a tank shell during a protest march.
A 3-year-old girl was killed Saturday in the Brazil neighborhood while Hansen's delegation was in the area. Relatives said Rawan Mohammed Abu Zeid was killed by a gunshot to the head as she walked to a shop to buy candy.
"We were playing in the house when she told me she wanted some candy," said her brother Diyab Abu Zeid, 19, crying uncontrollably on the telephone. "The older kids in the neighborhood were going to the store so I let her go with them.
"There was no one in the street but the kids, not even other adults," he added.
The army said it had no reports of shots being fired in the area.
Israel says its offensive has resulted in the arrest of dozens of militants and the killing of a local leader of the armed group Hamas. The army also said it had discovered one arms-smuggling tunnel during the operation.
Overnight, tanks, jeeps and bulldozers moved into a sparsely populated area on the outskirts of the town of Rafah, next to the camp, witnesses and Palestinian security forces said. Farmer Barakat Abu Halaweh, 40, said armored vehicles flattened greenhouses and chicken coops and ordered him and his family of 15 to leave their house for three days.
Mahmoud Zahar, a Hamas leader in Gaza, said the Israeli offensive "will escalate the resistance and will increase the commitment of the Palestinian people to pursue the path of Jihad and steadfastness."
Palestinian officials said Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman would meet Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) on Monday, presumably to discuss the crisis in Rafah. Israel has accused Egypt of not doing enough to halt the smuggling across its border with Gaza.
In a message to a summit of Arab leaders in Tunis, Arafat urged the international community to pressure Israel back to the negotiating table. He said military force "will not provide peace, security and stability for Israelis, but peace will, for a flourishing future for our children and theirs."
Israel is under intense diplomatic pressure to end the offensive and refrain from the sweeping demolition of Palestinian homes.
A key objective of the military operation is the widening of an Israeli patrol road between Rafah and the Egyptian border, which would make it more difficult for weapons smugglers to dig tunnels. Widening the road would require the demolition of dozens of Palestinian houses, a plan criticized by the United Nations, the European Union (news - web sites) and the United States.
Israeli officials said Attorney General Meni Mazuz believed the road-widening plan would not hold up in local and international courts, and that he told the army to come up with alternatives that would cause less destruction.
A suicide bomber blew himself up at an Israeli army checkpoint east of the West Bank city of Nablus on Saturday, wounding four people, the Israeli military and paramedics said. Military sources said one soldier was slightly wounded and three Palestinians hurt, one seriously.
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine militant group claimed responsibility for the bombing in a call to The Associated Press, saying it was a response to the Rafah incursion.
I think that that outlook is too simplistic. I think the PLO is an organisation that has taken measures that are too extreme.
You have to remember when Isreal finally withdraw the Palestines need some form of adminstration especailly at first, A power vacaum would be much much worse and leave the door open for even people with an even more fundementallist outlook.
What I don't get is why don't Isreal withdraw? Why? They have every right to protect themselves and I could see the assasinations but knocking houses down is a bit too far even for me
2 things...yes, three times as many palestinians have been killed than israelies. HOWEVER as ive been saying, only 33 percent of the palestinians killed were noncombatabt. YES this is a high percentage...but, 77 percent of the people the palestinians have killed were non combatant. AND for those of you wondering how accurate the numbers are...i got them from an arab website, so the bias is towards them.
aliaschick4mv
Cadet
Um... first of all? No one knows how that girl was shot. Israel denide all military activity in the area. And they're shooting bullets into the air all the time in the gaza strip, everyone knows that. You know your physics, what goes up must come down. And what happens then? What happens when a gun accidentally misfires?SecretAgentMan said:
You blame the Israelis of course.
Just out of curiousity, by non combat do you mean caught in the crossfire or do you mean we decided to go blow some people up for no reason, because I don't recall hearing that one.
ANY non combatant. so yah, random terrorist attacks where buses are blown up...that mostly. but i think it also includes any fighting where an innocent was killed.
same goes for the palestinian non combatants.
wait, and im kinda confused, are you pro-israel? because in your first statement you sound pro israel, but then when you asked about the non combatents you sound as though youre defending the palestinians. not that i have a problem either way, i was just wondering! im pro-israel, not necessarily anti-arab, just anti terrorist.
same goes for the palestinian non combatants.
wait, and im kinda confused, are you pro-israel? because in your first statement you sound pro israel, but then when you asked about the non combatents you sound as though youre defending the palestinians. not that i have a problem either way, i was just wondering! im pro-israel, not necessarily anti-arab, just anti terrorist.
the_alliance
Cadet
i'm catholic and im for the Jewish people having their own homeland, but i dont think it's very jewish/christian/islamic to kick out the other party.
aliaschick4mv
Cadet
Oh, I'm terribly rediculously pro-Israel. I was thinking that as I was typing my statement, I realized it sounded rather anti-Israel. But I didn't know how else to phrase it. I just wanted to know so I could use it properly next time I'm argueing with some liberal.MVhunny said:
And I have no problem with a Palestinian state either. I'd just prefer the terrorists weren't around to see it.
Come on Ari, you've forgotten how pro-Israel I am? I know I've been MIA for a while...
aliaschick4mv
Cadet
Yep, yep. That's why it's always good to learn stuff so you can educate people. Of course, my friends won't let me talk about the issue because I um... tend to yell, but doesn't mean I don't try.MVhunny said:
Eh, don't worry about being outnumbered. I was here a few months back and Ari and I were fending off some pretty fierce liberal attacks.
yah...i got into this huge shouting match with a senior in my school. he wrote an article in the paper and i responded to it...then he responded again basically by making all this stuff up. of course he then wrote something in the last issue and graduated so now i dont have the chance to prove him wrong AGAIN but oh well, i did my best!
my friends are just as bad as i am. once my friend got drunk and started screaming at some random person about the conflict...it was quite hilarious, cuz she was so angry about it even though she was drunk.
yah i try to learn as much as i can. but its hard to read the newspapers and stuff cuz they all give different opinions. i try to just read the jerusalem post online.
my friends are just as bad as i am. once my friend got drunk and started screaming at some random person about the conflict...it was quite hilarious, cuz she was so angry about it even though she was drunk.
yah i try to learn as much as i can. but its hard to read the newspapers and stuff cuz they all give different opinions. i try to just read the jerusalem post online.
the_alliance
Cadet
um...which israel are you looking at? the palestinians want the land and the israeli want the land. i feel as if they both have an all-or-nothing attitude.MVhunny said:
